11 ms·

I haven't read everything of his, but the bits that I've had have both enlightened and empowered me. I think Orwell's books are more than social commentary, an

I haven't read everything of his, but the bits that I've had have both enlightened and empowered me. I think Orwell's books are more than social commentary, and more than far-sighted predictions. If you look carefully, they can help navigate, survive, and thrive in an "Orwellian" environment. I think that's why 1984 is standard reading material in Orwellian schools. It makes the smart kids think about things, and come to the conclusion that they can try to start a rebellion, get found out, and find a rat cage on their head, or they can be happy getting better rations than the dumber kids.

n4r9 6y ago
It made you arrive at that conclusion, I suppose.
- forgotmypw17 6y ago
  i don't think it's an accident that out of all the books about dystopia, only the ones where the hero fails to resist or even symbiate with "the system" are taught. it's kind of like the cops tv show, they don't show any episodes where the perp gets away. there is plenty of fiction out there that takes another route, from bringing down the system, to the system collapsing upon itself, to finding a symbiotic way to co-exist with it while maintaining the self, to many other approaches.
  - n4r9 6y ago
    If I'm understanding correctly, you're postulating that there is a general preference in the dystopian-category reading material selected by schools, towards "bleak" novels in which resistance proves futile. Moreover, this is on some level a conscious decision by the education establishment to encourage children to play by the rules at school. Is that fair? This isn't a hypothesis I've come across before. On reflection I firmly disagree with it, but it's an interesting claim and worth discussing. The main problem I have is that there is a much simpler explanation for why schools choose the bleak dystopian novels: simply because all the most established, popular, and excellent dystopian novels are the bleak ones. 1984, Animal Farm, Brave New World, Clockwork Orange, Fahrenheit 451, Handmaid's Tale etc... . The reason these books are taught in school is actually that bleak novels capture the human condition more successfully, and thus stand the test of time and become classics. The only dystopian novels I can think of with a successful protagonist, which are cuturally established and excellent at a literary level, are Philip K Dick's books; there are many other reasons schools would not choose to offer these, not least the prevalent casual attitudes towards drugs. The other issue I have is that the commonly accepted moral thrust of the above listed books is not that one should simply play by the rules and keep one's head down. It is instead that we should be collectively aware of the threat of society going in that direction, and take steps to prevent it before it gets as bad as that. Whilst all those novels are bleak depictions, they contain a message of hope: that we still have time to stop this from happening. If you look at the life of George Orwell and the views he expressed publicly, it's clear that he would not advocate keeping your head down and working hard to get more "rations" than your neighbour. He fought in Spain with the anarchists against the fascists, and spent a lot of his life going hungry rather than give up his vocation of being an authentic writer. Lastly, is there any evidence/data to suggest that books like 1984 are more common in more authoritarian schools? I would actually expect the opposite, that schools with a more liberal leaning are more likely to teach it for the reasons I state in the paragraph above.

n4r9 6y ago

It made you arrive at that conclusion, I suppose.

forgotmypw17 6y ago
i don't think it's an accident that out of all the books about dystopia, only the ones where the hero fails to resist or even symbiate with "the system" are taught. it's kind of like the cops tv show, they don't show any episodes where the perp gets away. there is plenty of fiction out there that takes another route, from bringing down the system, to the system collapsing upon itself, to finding a symbiotic way to co-exist with it while maintaining the self, to many other approaches.
- n4r9 6y ago
  If I'm understanding correctly, you're postulating that there is a general preference in the dystopian-category reading material selected by schools, towards "bleak" novels in which resistance proves futile. Moreover, this is on some level a conscious decision by the education establishment to encourage children to play by the rules at school. Is that fair? This isn't a hypothesis I've come across before. On reflection I firmly disagree with it, but it's an interesting claim and worth discussing. The main problem I have is that there is a much simpler explanation for why schools choose the bleak dystopian novels: simply because all the most established, popular, and excellent dystopian novels are the bleak ones. 1984, Animal Farm, Brave New World, Clockwork Orange, Fahrenheit 451, Handmaid's Tale etc... . The reason these books are taught in school is actually that bleak novels capture the human condition more successfully, and thus stand the test of time and become classics. The only dystopian novels I can think of with a successful protagonist, which are cuturally established and excellent at a literary level, are Philip K Dick's books; there are many other reasons schools would not choose to offer these, not least the prevalent casual attitudes towards drugs. The other issue I have is that the commonly accepted moral thrust of the above listed books is not that one should simply play by the rules and keep one's head down. It is instead that we should be collectively aware of the threat of society going in that direction, and take steps to prevent it before it gets as bad as that. Whilst all those novels are bleak depictions, they contain a message of hope: that we still have time to stop this from happening. If you look at the life of George Orwell and the views he expressed publicly, it's clear that he would not advocate keeping your head down and working hard to get more "rations" than your neighbour. He fought in Spain with the anarchists against the fascists, and spent a lot of his life going hungry rather than give up his vocation of being an authentic writer. Lastly, is there any evidence/data to suggest that books like 1984 are more common in more authoritarian schools? I would actually expect the opposite, that schools with a more liberal leaning are more likely to teach it for the reasons I state in the paragraph above.