4 ms·

I don’t think even those politicians and officers wanted the Capitol breached; what happened was they didn’t think there people would do it. It’s a huge bias. I

I don’t think even those politicians and officers wanted the Capitol breached; what happened was they didn’t think there people would do it. It’s a huge bias. If the same was discussed by anyone outside that category of people it would have been met with the appropriate preparation and mitigation measures.

mumblemumble 6y ago
This really speaks to the problem, though. They've proven to be more than happy to bait the mob when they think they can use it to consolidate their own power. The GOP has been doing a large scale equivalent of swinging nunchucks around in public. The problem isn't that sometimes it swings around the wrong way and whacks someone they didn't intend to whack. Well, no, it is, of course that's a problem. But the more fundamental problem is that they're recklessly swinging an unpredictable weapon in public in an effort to be intimidating in the first place. And the problem is that people who didn't feel personally threatened by this behavior just sat there and came up with sorry excuses to try and rationalize it. This is deeply antisocial comportment that should have no place in the top echelons of civil society.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  > They've proven to be more than happy to bait the mob when they think they can use it to consolidate their own power. But both sides are doing it. Kamala Harris, speaking on protests and rioting after the death of George Floyd: "They’re not going to stop. They’re not going to stop. This is a movement, I’m telling you. They’re not gonna stop. And everyone beware because they’re not gonna stop. They’re not gonna stop before Election Day and they’re not going to stop after Election Day. And everyone should take note of that. They’re not gonna let up and they should not."
  - mumblemumble 6y ago
    Quote mining is such a magical thing. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-kamala-harris-late-show-rio/fact-check-kamala-harris-said-she-supports-protests-not-riots-in-late-show-clip-idUSKBN27E34P https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-kamala-harris-l...
  - MereInterest 6y ago
    I see a pretty big difference between protests against police violence and protests against an election result.
    - acdha 6y ago
      There’s also a huge difference between people standing in the street shouting that they don’t like you and breaking down the doors to a restricted federal building after saying they were going to kill you and/or shut down a civic proceeding.
    - throwaway201103 6y ago
      There police protests included riots, arson, looting, and murders. Harris didn't condemn this until months later when specifically pressed on the point. Just as Trump has always condemned violence when specifically asked.
    - odessacubbage 6y ago
      yes, far more people died during the former. the ethical double standard you are creating exists in your mind and in your mind only. when people see violence excused and ignored for months on end, it becomes legitimized as a tactic in their playbook as well. this is the current sickness in our discourse that we have to reckon with and trying to play 'most righteous cause' is the furthest thing from a solution.
      - throw0101a 6y ago
        Supposedly more cops died in one day of (presumably Thin Blue Line supporting) riots at the US Capital than did many months of the so-called "anti-cop" demonstrations. Perhaps if the police cleared out the MAGA folks as enthusiastically as they did the peaceful demonstrators for Trump's church photo-op, then a lot of this could be avoided. And the goal of the BLM demonstration was not violence, whereas that was the goal of at least some (if not many) of the MAGA folks. Quite a few folks walking around with zip ties and more than one noose as well. Going back to July 27, 2020, Trump tweeted: > Anarchists, Agitators or Protestors who vandalize or damage our Federal Courthouse in Portland, or any Federal Buildings in any of our Cities or States, will be prosecuted under our recently re-enacted Statues & Monuments Act. MINIMUM TEN YEARS IN PRISON. Don’t do it! @DHSgov * https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/trump-tweet-threatening-prison-time-for-those-who-protest-at-federal-buildings-resurfaces-amid-capitol-hill-chaos/ https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/trump-tweet-threate... * https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1287877621380837378 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12878776213808373...
  - throwaway9980 6y ago
    You know what else both sides are doing? Whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout! Just stop already. If you can’t see the difference then you are just willfully closing your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ears.
  - throw0101a 6y ago
    She was talking about BLM protests, whose goal was not violence: > "I know there are protests still happening in major cities across the United States, I'm just not seeing the reporting on it that I had for the first few weeks," Colbert said. > "That's right," Harris replied. "But they're not gonna stop. They're not gonna stop, and this is a movement, I'm telling you." * https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/01/fact-check-kamala-harris-said-protests-arent-going-stop/5678687002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/01/fac... See also Biden on violence: * https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/07/fact-check-joe-biden-has-condemned-violent-protests-several-times/6576824002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/07/fac... Meanwhile, the rioters at the US Capital: > “This is not America,” a woman said to a small group, her voice shaking. She was crying, hysterical. “They’re shooting at us. They’re supposed to shoot BLM, but they’re shooting the patriots.” * https://archive.is/tZVFs https://archive.is/tZVFs (paywall) * https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/capitol-trump-insurrection-explosions/ https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/capitol-trump-ins...
    - Amezarak 6y ago
      > She was talking about BLM protests, whose goal was not violence: Maybe that wasn't the goal, as it also wasn't the goal of most of the Trump protestors. But there was nevertheless plenty of violence. Just seven months ago, dozens of Secret Service agents were hospitalized after being attacked by BLM protestors attempting to storm the White House. https://www.newsmax.com/us/white-house-secret-service/2020/06/01/id/969901/ https://www.newsmax.com/us/white-house-secret-service/2020/0... Recent events have really, really opened my eyes as to how the media covers events that it supports versus events it does not support.
      - Frondo 6y ago
        The claim for 50 secret service agents being hospitalized comes from one unnamed source in the trump administration; and both fox news and newsmax have a strong right-leaning bias, so it's hard for me to believe it's true at all.
      - throw0101a 6y ago
rsynnott 6y ago
I think that's possibly an over-charitable view, but if you accept it it still paints them as negligent and incompetent. "Some terrorists have explicitly said they will do this thing, in public, but, eh, they probably won't, so why worry about it" is a ridiculous take for someone in their position.

mumblemumble 6y ago

This really speaks to the problem, though. They've proven to be more than happy to bait the mob when they think they can use it to consolidate their own power. The GOP has been doing a large scale equivalent of swinging nunchucks around in public. The problem isn't that sometimes it swings around the wrong way and whacks someone they didn't intend to whack. Well, no, it is, of course that's a problem. But the more fundamental problem is that they're recklessly swinging an unpredictable weapon in public in an effort to be intimidating in the first place. And the problem is that people who didn't feel personally threatened by this behavior just sat there and came up with sorry excuses to try and rationalize it. This is deeply antisocial comportment that should have no place in the top echelons of civil society.

throwaway201103 6y ago
> They've proven to be more than happy to bait the mob when they think they can use it to consolidate their own power. But both sides are doing it. Kamala Harris, speaking on protests and rioting after the death of George Floyd: "They’re not going to stop. They’re not going to stop. This is a movement, I’m telling you. They’re not gonna stop. And everyone beware because they’re not gonna stop. They’re not gonna stop before Election Day and they’re not going to stop after Election Day. And everyone should take note of that. They’re not gonna let up and they should not."
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  Quote mining is such a magical thing. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-kamala-harris-late-show-rio/fact-check-kamala-harris-said-she-supports-protests-not-riots-in-late-show-clip-idUSKBN27E34P https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-kamala-harris-l...
- MereInterest 6y ago
  I see a pretty big difference between protests against police violence and protests against an election result.
  - acdha 6y ago
    There’s also a huge difference between people standing in the street shouting that they don’t like you and breaking down the doors to a restricted federal building after saying they were going to kill you and/or shut down a civic proceeding.
  - throwaway201103 6y ago
    There police protests included riots, arson, looting, and murders. Harris didn't condemn this until months later when specifically pressed on the point. Just as Trump has always condemned violence when specifically asked.
  - odessacubbage 6y ago
    yes, far more people died during the former. the ethical double standard you are creating exists in your mind and in your mind only. when people see violence excused and ignored for months on end, it becomes legitimized as a tactic in their playbook as well. this is the current sickness in our discourse that we have to reckon with and trying to play 'most righteous cause' is the furthest thing from a solution.
    - throw0101a 6y ago
      Supposedly more cops died in one day of (presumably Thin Blue Line supporting) riots at the US Capital than did many months of the so-called "anti-cop" demonstrations. Perhaps if the police cleared out the MAGA folks as enthusiastically as they did the peaceful demonstrators for Trump's church photo-op, then a lot of this could be avoided. And the goal of the BLM demonstration was not violence, whereas that was the goal of at least some (if not many) of the MAGA folks. Quite a few folks walking around with zip ties and more than one noose as well. Going back to July 27, 2020, Trump tweeted: > Anarchists, Agitators or Protestors who vandalize or damage our Federal Courthouse in Portland, or any Federal Buildings in any of our Cities or States, will be prosecuted under our recently re-enacted Statues & Monuments Act. MINIMUM TEN YEARS IN PRISON. Don’t do it! @DHSgov * https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/trump-tweet-threatening-prison-time-for-those-who-protest-at-federal-buildings-resurfaces-amid-capitol-hill-chaos/ https://www.cbs17.com/news/national-news/trump-tweet-threate... * https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1287877621380837378 https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/12878776213808373...
- throwaway9980 6y ago
  You know what else both sides are doing? Whatabout whatabout whatabout whatabout! Just stop already. If you can’t see the difference then you are just willfully closing your eyes and sticking your fingers in your ears.
- throw0101a 6y ago
  She was talking about BLM protests, whose goal was not violence: > "I know there are protests still happening in major cities across the United States, I'm just not seeing the reporting on it that I had for the first few weeks," Colbert said. > "That's right," Harris replied. "But they're not gonna stop. They're not gonna stop, and this is a movement, I'm telling you." * https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/01/fact-check-kamala-harris-said-protests-arent-going-stop/5678687002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/01/fac... See also Biden on violence: * https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/07/fact-check-joe-biden-has-condemned-violent-protests-several-times/6576824002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/07/fac... Meanwhile, the rioters at the US Capital: > “This is not America,” a woman said to a small group, her voice shaking. She was crying, hysterical. “They’re shooting at us. They’re supposed to shoot BLM, but they’re shooting the patriots.” * https://archive.is/tZVFs https://archive.is/tZVFs (paywall) * https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/capitol-trump-insurrection-explosions/ https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/capitol-trump-ins...
  - Amezarak 6y ago
    > She was talking about BLM protests, whose goal was not violence: Maybe that wasn't the goal, as it also wasn't the goal of most of the Trump protestors. But there was nevertheless plenty of violence. Just seven months ago, dozens of Secret Service agents were hospitalized after being attacked by BLM protestors attempting to storm the White House. https://www.newsmax.com/us/white-house-secret-service/2020/06/01/id/969901/ https://www.newsmax.com/us/white-house-secret-service/2020/0... Recent events have really, really opened my eyes as to how the media covers events that it supports versus events it does not support.
    - Frondo 6y ago
      The claim for 50 secret service agents being hospitalized comes from one unnamed source in the trump administration; and both fox news and newsmax have a strong right-leaning bias, so it's hard for me to believe it's true at all.
    - throw0101a 6y ago

rsynnott 6y ago

I think that's possibly an over-charitable view, but if you accept it it still paints them as negligent and incompetent. "Some terrorists have explicitly said they will do this thing, in public, but, eh, they probably won't, so why worry about it" is a ridiculous take for someone in their position.