6 ms·

The breach of the capitol building is an embarrassment. There's not reinforced glass on the first floor windows? The secured interior is 3 cops in front of a wo

by etcet 6y ago

The breach of the capitol building is an embarrassment. There's not reinforced glass on the first floor windows? The secured interior is 3 cops in front of a wooden door with plate glass windows? And those cops just kinda slinked away letting a woman breach it and get insta killed? The outside perimeter is just a few cops in front of some fencing? What a fucking failure.

barbacoa 6y ago
Imagine if we had a 2008 Mumbai style terror attack with armed and organized gunman. We'd be f'ed.
- casefields 6y ago
  We have. 5 members of Congress were shot. Jimmy Carter commuted their sentences. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_United_States_Capitol_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_United_States_Capitol_sho...
throwaway201103 6y ago
Especially on a day when there was a large protest planned for a vote taking place. It's a government building and it should be reasonably open to the public but common sense needs to raise its head at some point. Securing the building for a few hours would not have been unreasonable.
chrisseaton 6y ago
Do you think it should be a fortress? That's sad. It's supposed to be an accessible place where your representatives work, not a military base.
- etcet 6y ago
  I think it should be reasonably defensible. It's not just a failure of the architecture though. The tactics used were mostly ineffective. Defensive forces were positioned thinly with few real blockades. I saw one instance of police blocking an entrance through sheer mass and it was effective. The cops could have been done the same in the interior hallways instead of giving up their spread out weak positions. This would have prevented the use of firearms. If you can stomach it, I ask everyone to watch the full lead up to the shot. It is an absolute failure of policing. Start at 37:20 on https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff6857e00bac0328da8e888 https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff6857e00bac0328da8e888 and yes it's NSFL (shot at 39:10).
- koheripbal 6y ago
  It's a target - plain and symbol. It was the target of the 4th plane on 9/11, and it will likely be a target again. Given the importance of the building and the people inside, it absolutely needs to be protected. Is it sad that we need to protect things that are important to us? Yes. Should we do it anyway? Yes.
tstrimple 6y ago
We've seen what the capital looks like when leftists protest. The security was intentionally lax and the president intentionally restricted national guard response. It was so easy because there were people inside helping them out. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/ap-fact-check-trump-distorts-record-on-national-guard-in-dc/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/ap-fact-check-trum...
- thakoppno 6y ago
  > The Pentagon said Miller approved the request without speaking with the White House because he had gotten direction from the president days earlier to do whatever he deemed necessary with the Guard.
  - tstrimple 6y ago
    Did you read everything or just try to cherry pick something to try to spread misinformation? "Army leaders say the delay in the movement of Guard troops to the Capitol was because the initial agreement largely limited those forces to checkpoints and Metro stations and *stipulated they would not go to the Capitol*. As a result, authorities had to get approval for the new mission, then call Guard members to the armory, brief them and get them their riot gear, and then send them to the Capitol."
    - dang 6y ago
      Would you please stop using HN for political and ideological battle? You've been doing it repeatedly lately and it's not what this site is for, regardless of which politics you're battling for or against. HN is for thoughtful, curious conversation on topics of intellectual interest. The sets of that and political flamewar are disjoint. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd appreciate it.
      - tstrimple 6y ago
        So me clearing up misinformation is a problem, but other using spreading information isn't? Isn't our unwillingness to challenge this misinformation exactly why we're dealing with violent seditionists right now? Did you somehow miss an attack on the US capitol largely due to rampant spread of misinformation?

by etcet 6y ago

barbacoa 6y ago

Imagine if we had a 2008 Mumbai style terror attack with armed and organized gunman. We'd be f'ed.

casefields 6y ago
We have. 5 members of Congress were shot. Jimmy Carter commuted their sentences. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_United_States_Capitol_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_United_States_Capitol_sho...

throwaway201103 6y ago

Especially on a day when there was a large protest planned for a vote taking place. It's a government building and it should be reasonably open to the public but common sense needs to raise its head at some point. Securing the building for a few hours would not have been unreasonable.

chrisseaton 6y ago

Do you think it should be a fortress? That's sad. It's supposed to be an accessible place where your representatives work, not a military base.

etcet 6y ago
I think it should be reasonably defensible. It's not just a failure of the architecture though. The tactics used were mostly ineffective. Defensive forces were positioned thinly with few real blockades. I saw one instance of police blocking an entrance through sheer mass and it was effective. The cops could have been done the same in the interior hallways instead of giving up their spread out weak positions. This would have prevented the use of firearms. If you can stomach it, I ask everyone to watch the full lead up to the shot. It is an absolute failure of policing. Start at 37:20 on https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff6857e00bac0328da8e888 https://banned.video/watch?id=5ff6857e00bac0328da8e888 and yes it's NSFL (shot at 39:10).
koheripbal 6y ago
It's a target - plain and symbol. It was the target of the 4th plane on 9/11, and it will likely be a target again. Given the importance of the building and the people inside, it absolutely needs to be protected. Is it sad that we need to protect things that are important to us? Yes. Should we do it anyway? Yes.

tstrimple 6y ago

We've seen what the capital looks like when leftists protest. The security was intentionally lax and the president intentionally restricted national guard response. It was so easy because there were people inside helping them out. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/ap-fact-check-trump-distorts-record-on-national-guard-in-dc/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/ap-fact-check-trum...

thakoppno 6y ago
> The Pentagon said Miller approved the request without speaking with the White House because he had gotten direction from the president days earlier to do whatever he deemed necessary with the Guard.
- tstrimple 6y ago
  Did you read everything or just try to cherry pick something to try to spread misinformation? "Army leaders say the delay in the movement of Guard troops to the Capitol was because the initial agreement largely limited those forces to checkpoints and Metro stations and *stipulated they would not go to the Capitol*. As a result, authorities had to get approval for the new mission, then call Guard members to the armory, brief them and get them their riot gear, and then send them to the Capitol."
  - dang 6y ago
    Would you please stop using HN for political and ideological battle? You've been doing it repeatedly lately and it's not what this site is for, regardless of which politics you're battling for or against. HN is for thoughtful, curious conversation on topics of intellectual interest. The sets of that and political flamewar are disjoint. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use the site as intended, we'd appreciate it.
    - tstrimple 6y ago
      So me clearing up misinformation is a problem, but other using spreading information isn't? Isn't our unwillingness to challenge this misinformation exactly why we're dealing with violent seditionists right now? Did you somehow miss an attack on the US capitol largely due to rampant spread of misinformation?