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Yes, I agree with you. I would also add the ‘spirit’ of the Defund the Police movement was that a lack of oversight created a safe environment for bad officers

by smshgl 6y ago

Yes, I agree with you. I would also add the ‘spirit’ of the Defund the Police movement was that a lack of oversight created a safe environment for bad officers to victimize their community. Now, many of the same champions of this cause are taking on the role of the police themselves. Across Reddit, Twitter, and elsewhere, people are creating open source documents with the names of anyone they believe was at the riot. Most troubling of all, I am seeing many people openly advocating the police should have shot more protesters or brutalized them in some manner. This seems highly contrary to the goals of the movement.

Nursie 6y ago
I haven't seen that. I have seen many saying black people would have been shot, and this is unequal, that doesn't mean they want more shot. I've also seen many decrying the lack of defence of congress. Again, doesn't mean more deaths, just better preparation.
- loveistheanswer 6y ago
  I've seen many of my peers, friends even (which hurts to see) openly calling for mass bloodshed and rejoicing in the deaths of those who were shot or died on 1/6. Hatred and malice spreads like a viral wildfire on social media, no matter what your political ideology.
  - Nursie 6y ago
    Well on the one hand, hoping people get killed is pretty dark. On the other, these people literally attempted to overthrow the country, some were armed, some had bombs, some had the intent of abducting and/or harming people like Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi. So I would be very sympathetic to there having been a much more robust response, whilst still preferring nobody be hurt.
    - loveistheanswer 6y ago
      Yes, the lack of preparation for a mob which had been announcing its intentions publicly for weeks in advance leads me to believe someone higher up must have issued orders to stand down, essentially letting them in.
ceejayoz 6y ago
> Most troubling of all, I am seeing many people openly advocating the police should have shot more protesters or brutalized them in some manner. > This seems highly contrary to the goals of the movement. It is, and most people "in the movement" I've seen are saying "hey, this gentleness is how BLM protests should've treated, too".
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Most troubling of all, I am seeing many people openly advocating the police should have shot more protesters or brutalized them in some manner. I've seen lots of people ask questions like “where were the tear gas and rubber bullets?”, but I think you are missing the point of those and other references to the behavior of the police during BLM and other protests if you interpret them as a call that the violent behavior should have been repeated. They are, in at least most cases, using the restraint shown in the attempted coup where top government leaders were targeted to highlight what they see as the inappropriateness of the violent response in earlier protests and the hollowness of law enforcement claims that the force used in those earlier events was reasonable, necessary, and justified rather than motivated by racial and political bias.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  No, there were people also saying that the protestors should have been shot. On this very website, IIRC (rightly downvoted), but certainly on other platforms.
didibus 6y ago
Haven't you seen the repeated message: > We're not saying shoot them like you shot us. We're saying don't shoot us like you didn't shoot them. The issue is with the double standard, and that's what's at the root of the BLM movement. Honestly I'm surprised that some people still haven't managed to understand what's at the root of BLM after like all the demonstrations that happened around it. Even the name of the movement: "Black Lives Matters" aka "Blacks are not a lower class to be treated more arshly and with less humanity" Which is why when someone says BLM nah ALM, it's absolutely missing the point of the movement. Cause how do you reframe that: "All people are of equal class"... Ok but black people aren't treated equally so like that's not true? That's why there are million of black people protesting. It's okay to maybe wonder... Wait is it true that black people are treated differently? Is it because they are black? Or is it more that poor people (happen to often be black) and are treated differently? Yes sure that's a question one can wonder, but you don't have to go very far at least to suspect that whatever it is, in effect, black people do get treated differently (be it because they are black or because they are poor, or because they're less educated, etc.) The why doesn't matter, the different treatment does, no matter what, nobody should be treated differently. Sorry for the rant, but it's tiring having to explain these basics. Of course left and right can't even have a proper conversation around the issue when half the table doesn't understand what is the issue to discuss. And I like to remind people, this isn't just the root of the BLM movement, this is literally the root of the United States itself. The declaration of independence: > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;

by smshgl 6y ago

Nursie 6y ago

I haven't seen that. I have seen many saying black people would have been shot, and this is unequal, that doesn't mean they want more shot. I've also seen many decrying the lack of defence of congress. Again, doesn't mean more deaths, just better preparation.

loveistheanswer 6y ago
I've seen many of my peers, friends even (which hurts to see) openly calling for mass bloodshed and rejoicing in the deaths of those who were shot or died on 1/6. Hatred and malice spreads like a viral wildfire on social media, no matter what your political ideology.
- Nursie 6y ago
  Well on the one hand, hoping people get killed is pretty dark. On the other, these people literally attempted to overthrow the country, some were armed, some had bombs, some had the intent of abducting and/or harming people like Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi. So I would be very sympathetic to there having been a much more robust response, whilst still preferring nobody be hurt.
  - loveistheanswer 6y ago
    Yes, the lack of preparation for a mob which had been announcing its intentions publicly for weeks in advance leads me to believe someone higher up must have issued orders to stand down, essentially letting them in.

ceejayoz 6y ago

> Most troubling of all, I am seeing many people openly advocating the police should have shot more protesters or brutalized them in some manner. > This seems highly contrary to the goals of the movement. It is, and most people "in the movement" I've seen are saying "hey, this gentleness is how BLM protests should've treated, too".

dragonwriter 6y ago

> Most troubling of all, I am seeing many people openly advocating the police should have shot more protesters or brutalized them in some manner. I've seen lots of people ask questions like “where were the tear gas and rubber bullets?”, but I think you are missing the point of those and other references to the behavior of the police during BLM and other protests if you interpret them as a call that the violent behavior should have been repeated. They are, in at least most cases, using the restraint shown in the attempted coup where top government leaders were targeted to highlight what they see as the inappropriateness of the violent response in earlier protests and the hollowness of law enforcement claims that the force used in those earlier events was reasonable, necessary, and justified rather than motivated by racial and political bias.

throwaway201103 6y ago
No, there were people also saying that the protestors should have been shot. On this very website, IIRC (rightly downvoted), but certainly on other platforms.

didibus 6y ago

Haven't you seen the repeated message: > We're not saying shoot them like you shot us. We're saying don't shoot us like you didn't shoot them. The issue is with the double standard, and that's what's at the root of the BLM movement. Honestly I'm surprised that some people still haven't managed to understand what's at the root of BLM after like all the demonstrations that happened around it. Even the name of the movement: "Black Lives Matters" aka "Blacks are not a lower class to be treated more arshly and with less humanity" Which is why when someone says BLM nah ALM, it's absolutely missing the point of the movement. Cause how do you reframe that: "All people are of equal class"... Ok but black people aren't treated equally so like that's not true? That's why there are million of black people protesting. It's okay to maybe wonder... Wait is it true that black people are treated differently? Is it because they are black? Or is it more that poor people (happen to often be black) and are treated differently? Yes sure that's a question one can wonder, but you don't have to go very far at least to suspect that whatever it is, in effect, black people do get treated differently (be it because they are black or because they are poor, or because they're less educated, etc.) The why doesn't matter, the different treatment does, no matter what, nobody should be treated differently. Sorry for the rant, but it's tiring having to explain these basics. Of course left and right can't even have a proper conversation around the issue when half the table doesn't understand what is the issue to discuss. And I like to remind people, this isn't just the root of the BLM movement, this is literally the root of the United States itself. The declaration of independence: > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;