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have they? at the very least, they are not presenting a unified face. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https:

have they? at the very least, they are not presenting a unified face. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abol...

zepto 6y ago
Why would you want or expect the press to present a unified face?
- mike_h 6y ago
  It’s a handy assumption when you want to use straw-man arguments.
- moron4hire 6y ago
  Because apparently "the press" and "the left" are both homogenous things that are in cahoots with each other to... do... something?
  - smaddox 6y ago
    I think the standard end to that sentence is "to destroy our democracy."
- leetcrew 6y ago
  I don't, and it would be very scary if it did. all I'm saying it's quite reasonable to be unsure what "defund the police" means. it's not at all clear that it has some generally accepted meaning.
  - zepto 6y ago
    I agree - it doesn’t have some generally accepted meaning. Some people seem to mean ‘no police at all’ and some seem to mean ‘don’t task the police with trivial stuff’. But why then would the right assume it means the former?
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      well for one thing, the conservative slogan "defund planned parenthood" really does mean (AFAIK) remove all ways planned parenthood could possibly get a dollar from the government. it's not inconsistent to interpret "defund the police" the same way. but more generally, it's inevitable that the opposing side will interpret a vague slogan in the most negative and scary light possible. I suspect this is often by design, ie motte and bailey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        Conservatives complained about Obama defunding the military too. They knew he didn't disband it.
nickloewen 6y ago
It's true that there are differences of opinion among the many people participating in this conversation, and the reporting on it. But to be fair, this article does say: "But don’t get me wrong. We are not abandoning our communities to violence. We don’t want to just close police departments. We want to make them obsolete. "We should redirect the billions that now go to police departments toward providing health care, housing, education and good jobs. If we did this, there would be less need for the police in the first place. "We can build other ways of responding to harms in our society. Trained “community care workers” could do mental-health checks if someone needs help. Towns could use restorative-justice models instead of throwing people in prison."
lostlogin 6y ago
That’s and opinion piece and I don’t believe she is a staff member, the byline is a clue. The article ends “ Mariame Kaba (@prisonculture) is the director of Project NIA, a grass-roots group that works to end youth incarceration, and an anti-criminalization organizer”. It’s a good read, thanks.

zepto 6y ago

Why would you want or expect the press to present a unified face?

mike_h 6y ago
It’s a handy assumption when you want to use straw-man arguments.
moron4hire 6y ago
Because apparently "the press" and "the left" are both homogenous things that are in cahoots with each other to... do... something?
- smaddox 6y ago
  I think the standard end to that sentence is "to destroy our democracy."
leetcrew 6y ago
I don't, and it would be very scary if it did. all I'm saying it's quite reasonable to be unsure what "defund the police" means. it's not at all clear that it has some generally accepted meaning.
- zepto 6y ago
  I agree - it doesn’t have some generally accepted meaning. Some people seem to mean ‘no police at all’ and some seem to mean ‘don’t task the police with trivial stuff’. But why then would the right assume it means the former?
  - leetcrew 6y ago
    well for one thing, the conservative slogan "defund planned parenthood" really does mean (AFAIK) remove all ways planned parenthood could possibly get a dollar from the government. it's not inconsistent to interpret "defund the police" the same way. but more generally, it's inevitable that the opposing side will interpret a vague slogan in the most negative and scary light possible. I suspect this is often by design, ie motte and bailey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      Conservatives complained about Obama defunding the military too. They knew he didn't disband it.

nickloewen 6y ago

It's true that there are differences of opinion among the many people participating in this conversation, and the reporting on it. But to be fair, this article does say: "But don’t get me wrong. We are not abandoning our communities to violence. We don’t want to just close police departments. We want to make them obsolete. "We should redirect the billions that now go to police departments toward providing health care, housing, education and good jobs. If we did this, there would be less need for the police in the first place. "We can build other ways of responding to harms in our society. Trained “community care workers” could do mental-health checks if someone needs help. Towns could use restorative-justice models instead of throwing people in prison."

lostlogin 6y ago

That’s and opinion piece and I don’t believe she is a staff member, the byline is a clue. The article ends “ Mariame Kaba (@prisonculture) is the director of Project NIA, a grass-roots group that works to end youth incarceration, and an anti-criminalization organizer”. It’s a good read, thanks.