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> Strength Training very broadly just means a rep range that makes you stronger, not bigger. There is no such thing (edit: well, except maybe 1-2 reps, because

> Strength Training very broadly just means a rep range that makes you stronger, not bigger. There is no such thing (edit: well, except maybe 1-2 reps, because it's hard to get much volume with those. But beginners shouldn't be doing those anyway). You get stronger in the rep range you practice. People often (in gym circles) mean "1-rep strength" when they say "strength", but such a narrow definition only makes sense if you are competing in powerlifting. As a beginner you want the rep range that maximizes gains/risk and also gains/unpleasantness ratio, which will usually be 5-10. > rep range is high with bodybuilding because bodybuilding cares about volume People who train for strength also care about volume because volume is a great way to get stronger. And also great way to get bigger. Which makes sense, because getting bigger is a great way to get stronger. > starting off as an amateur by copying what bodybuilders are doing I think this is where the most of the confusion comes from. It is bad to start amateurs on stuff that professional body builders do, but it would also be bad to start them on stuff professional powerlifters do (low bar one-rep max squats or speed deadlifts). On the other hand, as an amateur, whether your goal is strength or better physique - the best approach is going to be very similar. > Not to mention machines are garbage and cause injury since they make you do unnatural things (unless you really know what you are doing, which amateurs do not). Some types of machines are absolutely fine (cable machines), other types are also mostly fine - they get a bad reputation from few of the worst offenders such as leg press and leg extension machine.

netizen-9748 6y ago
Just to add to this comment, strength increased with cross-sectional muscle area. Neural adaptation is not entirely separate, but yes the stimuli for increasing each can be generally separated into the low or high rep schemes. For those doing any sort of strength training, as long as you progress in weight for the first 3-4 years gaining muscle mass is unavoidable and not a bad thing at all. Hypertrophy is a well studied area of sport science and as long as you maintain a healthy diet, building muscle is not a negative thing in the least. It even helps with longevity by counteracting the muscle loss associated with aging.
mancerayder 6y ago
Hold on. I know what you're trying to say, reps at 5-10 will give you strength benefits. But there's a nuance you're missing that's quite relevant to the discussion. There are different metabolic options for the muscle, since different muscle cell types behave differently and metabolize differently. There is power, strength and endurance, broadly speaking, with a lot of overlap of course depending on your movement speed, resistance and volume. Which is why that at above around the 5-10 range you mentioned, you begin to touch into the endurance/hypertrophy area. Your comment about 1-2 reps not being good for beginners is questionable, though. It depends what you're training for. 1-2 reps is good or bad, but it all depends on what percentage of your max output you're attempting. a 1-2 rep range at something like an 85-90% of 1 RM isn't particularly offensive or dangerous, but it might not be optimal programming-wise if that is All you do. But it'll give you more strength increase faster than doing 8 reps. Your "there is no such thing" comment is wrong, though. I have in front of me Practical Programming for Strength Training by Mark Rippetoe, and there is a whole chapter that discusses the three muscle fiber types, twelve characteristics, and their relation to rep ranges. There is a continuum of strength v. hypertrophy, and the rep-range of 5 and below being optimally useful for strength training. Sure, any rep range really where you're not doing cardio will lead to both strength and hypertrophy, Especially for an amateur, but there is a rapid fall-off at either end of the scale (low rep = more strength increase / higher rep = endurance + muscle hypertrophy). In short: it's nuanced and I think your 5-10 number is again, a sort of "bodybuilding mentality" seeping into popular discourse, instead of a "good rule of thumb."
- balfirevic 6y ago
  > 1-2 rep range at something like an 85-90% of 1 RM [...] will give you more strength increase faster than doing 8 reps. It will give you more strength if you measure how much you can lift in a 1-rep set. It will give you less strength if you measure how much you can lift in an 8-rep set. The key false dichotomy here is strength vs. hypertrophy. They are not in opposition, bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. To be as strong as you can, you need to do two things: 1) Get the biggest muscles you can. 2) Get practice in the rep range you are interested in being tested. As good as Mark's books are, a lot has been researched and discovered since. For rep ranges in particular, this is a good article (backed by research): https://www.strongerbyscience.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fic...

netizen-9748 6y ago

Just to add to this comment, strength increased with cross-sectional muscle area. Neural adaptation is not entirely separate, but yes the stimuli for increasing each can be generally separated into the low or high rep schemes. For those doing any sort of strength training, as long as you progress in weight for the first 3-4 years gaining muscle mass is unavoidable and not a bad thing at all. Hypertrophy is a well studied area of sport science and as long as you maintain a healthy diet, building muscle is not a negative thing in the least. It even helps with longevity by counteracting the muscle loss associated with aging.

mancerayder 6y ago

Hold on. I know what you're trying to say, reps at 5-10 will give you strength benefits. But there's a nuance you're missing that's quite relevant to the discussion. There are different metabolic options for the muscle, since different muscle cell types behave differently and metabolize differently. There is power, strength and endurance, broadly speaking, with a lot of overlap of course depending on your movement speed, resistance and volume. Which is why that at above around the 5-10 range you mentioned, you begin to touch into the endurance/hypertrophy area. Your comment about 1-2 reps not being good for beginners is questionable, though. It depends what you're training for. 1-2 reps is good or bad, but it all depends on what percentage of your max output you're attempting. a 1-2 rep range at something like an 85-90% of 1 RM isn't particularly offensive or dangerous, but it might not be optimal programming-wise if that is All you do. But it'll give you more strength increase faster than doing 8 reps. Your "there is no such thing" comment is wrong, though. I have in front of me Practical Programming for Strength Training by Mark Rippetoe, and there is a whole chapter that discusses the three muscle fiber types, twelve characteristics, and their relation to rep ranges. There is a continuum of strength v. hypertrophy, and the rep-range of 5 and below being optimally useful for strength training. Sure, any rep range really where you're not doing cardio will lead to both strength and hypertrophy, Especially for an amateur, but there is a rapid fall-off at either end of the scale (low rep = more strength increase / higher rep = endurance + muscle hypertrophy). In short: it's nuanced and I think your 5-10 number is again, a sort of "bodybuilding mentality" seeping into popular discourse, instead of a "good rule of thumb."

balfirevic 6y ago
> 1-2 rep range at something like an 85-90% of 1 RM [...] will give you more strength increase faster than doing 8 reps. It will give you more strength if you measure how much you can lift in a 1-rep set. It will give you less strength if you measure how much you can lift in an 8-rep set. The key false dichotomy here is strength vs. hypertrophy. They are not in opposition, bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. To be as strong as you can, you need to do two things: 1) Get the biggest muscles you can. 2) Get practice in the rep range you are interested in being tested. As good as Mark's books are, a lot has been researched and discovered since. For rep ranges in particular, this is a good article (backed by research): https://www.strongerbyscience.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/ https://www.strongerbyscience.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fic...