4 ms·

I hate that this is downvoted, because it's so clearly true. There is a heavily armed, deeply mistrustful subculture in this country that has been TRAINED by i

I hate that this is downvoted, because it's so clearly true. There is a heavily armed, deeply mistrustful subculture in this country that has been TRAINED by its leaders (including most of the now-minority party) that it is going to need to overthrow the government someday. And they tried. Last Wednesday. What happens when they succeed? Now, to be fair: I don't think guns (as machines) are the core problem here. Removing the guns doesn't remove the domestic terrorists. But nonetheless gun culture is part and parcel of the right wing terror we just saw, and that needs to be fixed.

OminousWeapons 6y ago
I think what you mean by "gun culture" is more "tacticool culture" which interests a sub set of firearms owners. I agree that this is a problematic culture, but it's not the dominant culture. A large number if not most gun owners including myself own firearms for lawful self defense, hunting, sport, or job related duties (eg ranching, security) and have no interest in running around in plate armor or joining a militia. While I acknowledge that my firearms could help me if a revolution were to break out, that is not why I bought them, it's not what I'm interested in, and I sincerely hope to never have to use them in that context. It is worth noting that by constantly demonizing all gun owners as bad people and spewing poorly researched nonsense, certain gun control advocates such as some in this very thread do a wonderful job of alienating all firearms owners and generating sympathy among the moderates who would otherwise support thoughtful regulation for members interested in these tacticool endeavors.
- newacct583 6y ago
  I see the distinction you're making, but... I know a bunch of gun owners too, and the overlap is very substantial. It's all the same people, really. Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. > constantly demonizing all gun owners as bad people And see... this sort of defensiveness is why we can't solve this. I know it doesn't seem like that to you, but by refusing to call these people out and instead hitting back with statements like that, you are circling the wagons with the terrorists. I don't know how to fix this if you won't meet the rest of us half way.
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. No, they don't. Maybe all the ones you know do, but any individuals circle of familiarity probably isn't representative.
    - newacct583 6y ago
      And again, I cite the fact that you're getting defensive about attempts to call out this "tacticool"[1] subculture as dangerous instead of joining in the denunciation along with the rest of us as evidence that you associate more with their ideals than you may want to admit. If it's a problematic subculture it should be a problem, and not dismissed. I don't see that happening from anywhere on the right. [1] To pick the term above, which seems like a horrifying euphemism to my ears. But let's go with it.
  - OminousWeapons 6y ago
    How can I meet people half way when they have no interest in respecting me or meeting me half way? Many people view guns as inherently evil, view me as inherently evil for possessing them, and explicitly say they want to ban all firearms / there is no legitimate use case for firearms full stop. It's very difficult to take a moderate stance with such people when they are trying to shout me down and are demanding capitulation rather than moderation. > I know a bunch of gun owners too, and the overlap is very substantial. It's all the same people, really. Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. QED, you make unfounded and sweeping generalizations and then are surprised when people get defensive. When you employ rhetoric such as this, opponents will fight you just to do it.
    - newacct583 6y ago
      > Many people view guns as inherently evil I don't. Can you meet me half way?

OminousWeapons 6y ago

I think what you mean by "gun culture" is more "tacticool culture" which interests a sub set of firearms owners. I agree that this is a problematic culture, but it's not the dominant culture. A large number if not most gun owners including myself own firearms for lawful self defense, hunting, sport, or job related duties (eg ranching, security) and have no interest in running around in plate armor or joining a militia. While I acknowledge that my firearms could help me if a revolution were to break out, that is not why I bought them, it's not what I'm interested in, and I sincerely hope to never have to use them in that context. It is worth noting that by constantly demonizing all gun owners as bad people and spewing poorly researched nonsense, certain gun control advocates such as some in this very thread do a wonderful job of alienating all firearms owners and generating sympathy among the moderates who would otherwise support thoughtful regulation for members interested in these tacticool endeavors.

newacct583 6y ago
I see the distinction you're making, but... I know a bunch of gun owners too, and the overlap is very substantial. It's all the same people, really. Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. > constantly demonizing all gun owners as bad people And see... this sort of defensiveness is why we can't solve this. I know it doesn't seem like that to you, but by refusing to call these people out and instead hitting back with statements like that, you are circling the wagons with the terrorists. I don't know how to fix this if you won't meet the rest of us half way.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. No, they don't. Maybe all the ones you know do, but any individuals circle of familiarity probably isn't representative.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    And again, I cite the fact that you're getting defensive about attempts to call out this "tacticool"[1] subculture as dangerous instead of joining in the denunciation along with the rest of us as evidence that you associate more with their ideals than you may want to admit. If it's a problematic subculture it should be a problem, and not dismissed. I don't see that happening from anywhere on the right. [1] To pick the term above, which seems like a horrifying euphemism to my ears. But let's go with it.
- OminousWeapons 6y ago
  How can I meet people half way when they have no interest in respecting me or meeting me half way? Many people view guns as inherently evil, view me as inherently evil for possessing them, and explicitly say they want to ban all firearms / there is no legitimate use case for firearms full stop. It's very difficult to take a moderate stance with such people when they are trying to shout me down and are demanding capitulation rather than moderation. > I know a bunch of gun owners too, and the overlap is very substantial. It's all the same people, really. Obviously not every gun owner is a right wing terrorist, but they all subscribe to the same magazines and subreddits and all imagine the same euphemisms about freedom and protection and self-determinism. QED, you make unfounded and sweeping generalizations and then are surprised when people get defensive. When you employ rhetoric such as this, opponents will fight you just to do it.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    > Many people view guns as inherently evil I don't. Can you meet me half way?