13 ms·

Deep neck flexor exercises – Back and neck

190 points by whereistimbo 6y ago

motyar 6y ago
Can we get videos of these?
janmo 6y ago
I neglected my sitting position for years, now I pay the price for it. Every time I turn my head it makes unpleasant cracking noises (luckily no pain), I went to the doctor who was not able help me further. Those exercise allow me to have some relief and to lessen the noise, but it's still there. Anyone in the same situation here?
- qznc 6y ago
  I was fine until Corona home office. Apparently I'm now too old to ignore these topics. Thanks to some inspiration from https://old.reddit.com/r/flexibility/ https://old.reddit.com/r/flexibility/ I'm ok again but not yet as good as a year ago.
- freedomben 6y ago
  I am. Had the cracking noises for years now, sometimes with pain, but mostly it's just a discomfort that won't go away. I do neck rolls to help sometimes but too much will cause inflammation so I'm conservative with them. Turning my head side to side regularly also seems to help with the discomfort. I'm guessing my neck will continue to sound like breaking bones for the rest of my life though.
  - janmo 6y ago
    One of my ex-GF had this as well, she's a pianist (that's why)and for her it got away. So I guess there is hope.
cnasc 6y ago
Related, as a full-time keyboard jockey I have to make sure to take good care of my moneymakers. I’ve found this video of novel wrist and hand movements absolutely invaluable: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-hlWgH3_0NU https://youtube.com/watch?v=-hlWgH3_0NU
dec0dedab0de 6y ago
One thing that really helped me with back, and neck pain, and then later with all kinds of pain, is the trigger point therapy workbook. I forget which edition I have but there are one or two newer ones since then. I used to hurt myself and be useless for a week or two, since I got the book it's been a day or two. It's basically a guide for effective self massage. Funny side note, I learned about it from a character in a fictional book called sex drugs and blueberries, which I randomly picked up from the local section of a book store while visiting Maine about 10 years ago.
- switch007 6y ago
  I have this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-Treatment/dp/1608824942 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self... ISBN 1608824942
bproven 6y ago
For neck/back pain I highly recommend strength training - specifically focused on posterior chain exercises like deadlifts, squats (if you do not have any serious preexisting injuries preventing you doing them). Even you are unable to do those a good solid barbell strenght training program can work wonders. Anecdontal for me, but I find whenever I stop training my back/neck pain comes back. Also important to move a few times a day if you are doing the kind of sitting work most of us do. I make sure that I take a 20-30 min walk before I start working and then at least 1 more time mid-day. This also helps a lot IMO
- howardr 6y ago
  +1 After doing moderate strength training in these areas along with core exercises as part of a cross training class (2x a week) my back pain that I’ve had for over a decade dissapeared.
- polishdude20 6y ago
  Same for me. I have this mindset now that whenever I get back pain I need to deadlift / squat it out albeit with a slightly lower weight than usual. It seems to go away every time after a few sets.
- jacksonkmarley 6y ago
  Same for me, deadlifts and squats (with good form) kept away my lower back pain. One caveat, when I first started there was a bit of a learning curve on how to get core bracing and posture right, and bad form made my back a bit sore. Unfortunately in the current virus situation the gym is out and my place isn't suitable for weight training. I'm starting some bodyweight exercises but they don't seem to help my back like the weight training did.
  - PaulHoule 6y ago
    The most efficient kind of exercise to relieve low back pain involve bending backwards, such as the Cobra pose in Yoga https://www.dummies.com/health/exercise/yoga/how-to-do-the-cobra-pose-in-yoga/ https://www.dummies.com/health/exercise/yoga/how-to-do-the-c... See also https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/treat-your-own-back-robin-a-mckenzie/1101764194 https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/treat-your-own-back-robin-a... Cobra and the exercises from that book are easy to do at home but I like the bioenergetic arch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=225tAQzCVhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=225tAQzCVhs because it is standing and you can do it anywhere, just please wear better clothes than the guy in that video.
namanyayg 6y ago
Might be unconventional, but I've noticed that _breath patterns_ and correct posture while stretching (i.e. being in a rounded neck posture while stretching probably adds to harm...) For that, I've found this video guide to be one of the best and it feels significantly better than others. https://yogawithadriene.com/10-minute-yoga-quickie-neck-shoulders-upper-back/ https://yogawithadriene.com/10-minute-yoga-quickie-neck-shou... I invite any HNer to try it out and _really focus on the mindset and breathing patterns_ recommended by the guide. It's excellent, especially the part where you put the opposite hand on the ear and stretch.
- aaronbrethorst 6y ago
  I started a yoga practice just over a year ago after I recovered from a terrible, constant series of back spasms brought on by working on my laptop on my couch for too long. I probably did yoga for one hour 2-3 times per week on average last year, which helped me avoid a repeat of my back issues. It’s helped me improve my flexibility, muscle tone, and my awareness of my body. What I mean by that last point is that I am more immediately aware when I experience back issues, now, and I also have a clearer sense of how to move and stretch my body to fix those issues before they become worse. Yoga is great, and really doesn’t require any special equipment. You can try out a video and get pretty far without needing to buy mats, blocks, straps, Lululemon clothes, etc.
  - namanyayg 6y ago
    That is a great point about "awareness of the body". I found that a lot of neck pain stemmed from improper neck angles while viewing my dual monitor workstation. And I would be so numb to sensation that I would stay in the incorrect pose for hours, leading to pain when I got up from work. After some months of yoga, I am much more clearly able to recognise within minutes as soon as my neck is in any improper angle and fix it rather than letting it pain me after hours
    - aaronbrethorst 6y ago
      Yep, 100% agree. It's pretty cool.
melling 6y ago
While we certainly need to take care of our bodies, it would be helpful if we reinvented computers enough so we aren’t hunched over our computers all day. I sit relaxed with a tablet in my lap and use an Apple Pencil when possible. Of course, it’s not a great productivity device but at least it’s a slightly different position. Voice, cameras or radar for gestures, etc could be used to augment computing devices. 4 hours a day with a keyboard and the rest standing or sitting back using a different method of interface would be better. Soli everywhere? https://atap.google.com/soli/ https://atap.google.com/soli/
- dahart 6y ago
  If I could write code and attend meetings while I walk around, I’d be out walking and hiking all day. I’m imagining some fantasy where I could wear lightweight AR sunglasses and use gestures and/or voice control and somehow be able to do everything I do with my desktop. I’m not sure it’s realistic even ten years from now, but I’m also not sure this kind of setup is out of reach either. I use standing & treadmill desks on and off. They’re good for taking care of my body, but take effort to use consistently, and have some tradeoffs.
  - melling 6y ago
    Wolfram has his “walking desks” https://boingboing.net/2019/03/04/stephen-wolfram-explains-his.html https://boingboing.net/2019/03/04/stephen-wolfram-explains-h... I like the one of him walking outside. The problem is he’s still using a keyboard.
    - vinceguidry 6y ago
      My problem is that his neck has to crane very far down.
mordymoop 6y ago
Doing these gives me a 100% guaranteed 3 day long headache.
renw0rp 6y ago
I started having problems with my elbow and two (when looking at my palm) innermost fingers (pinky and ring fingers). At the beginning I thought it's tennis elbow, but then started having problems with my neck as well and getting dizzy (vertigo, headache and sometimes nausea) when lying down and getting up from the bed. I've noticed that that happens most when my head is on flat surface and even more when it reclines back (when a physiotherapist lowered my head below the flat surface of the bed I was ling on). Did anyone experience something like this or has any advice? I did have an ultrasound and EMG (electromyography) done which did not show any problems in my elbow. I do exercise for my neck now and hope that will help... I might add some exercises from the OP to my routine. PS. Funnily my problems (at the beginning it was only elbow and fingers) started during lockdown, when I finally started doing yoga-type exercises and I felt like I'm getting better at it (I think it's just coincidence, not causation though).
- jacksonkmarley 6y ago
  Curious about this, what was the issue with your fingers? Pain or numbness?
  - renw0rp 6y ago
    feeling weaker grip and sensations leading sometimes to clumsiness. I would describe it as slight numbness (in the sense of weaker sensations and a weird, kind of tingly feeling in the fingers). It was becoming a proper numbness when using phone/tablet for prolonged periods, but now I try to avoid doing that. I have similar tingly sensation in my elbow, and in the worst time I actually woke up at night with pain in the elbow. It's sometimes better, sometimes worse, and I'm trying what else (other than giving up my job and using computer) can I do to help relieve this issues. COVID pandemic is not helping either getting proper medical attention.
    - PaulHoule 6y ago
      Check your blood sugar
mancerayder 6y ago
Someone below wrote, " Doing these gives me a 100% guaranteed 3 day long headache. " I have something like this and I've spent many years trying to figure it out. One MRI (which showed nada), three or four doctors, several years of physical therapy, and a personal trainer who studied the problem later, and I am concluding the following: - I have loosey goosey joints more than other people. It's not extreme but enough. - I have usage of computers that far exceeds 90% of the population (12+ hours a day). - When the joints are loose, things get inflamed. When tendons and the joint structures get inflamed, the bodies responds protectively by tightening (turning on) stabilizer muscles - Stabilizer muscles can be weak and thus get overworked, causing spasms and other issues - Tight muscles can cause imbalances, further causing a chain reaction of more inflammation and spasms I've been doing weightlifting (not bodybuilding which you should not do if you value your body long-term! Strength Training and a bit of Olympic Weightlifting) for a number of years. I've been analyzing and thinking about posture for years. I'm typing this on a standing desk at home that has a monitor with an articulating arm (similar setup at work). I use left and right mice alternating. I sit and stand, alternating. I do neck stretches every morning and some isometric neck stuff. I suspect part of my problem is shoulder mobility so I also do daily scapular work. Yet. I suffer from neck pain every few days with flare-ups that last days and sometimes go away for a week or two. Medicine: You Suck! We can send robots to Mars and make self-driving cars, but due to the incoherence of modern medicine, I spend hours watching Yoga and PT videos and end up memorizing the names of bones and joints and physiological movements. And I suffer. Fuck you, Medicine! Glad I got that off my chest.
- newsclues 6y ago
  Got hit by a car and I’ve concluded doctors are largely a decade or more out of date on a lot of things, especially diet and non-obvious injuries.
  - mancerayder 6y ago
    I feel like medicine teaches you the facts - the hip bone is connected to the, leg bone - but in terms of 'troubleshooting skills', there is something deeply missing.
PaulHoule 6y ago
For neck pain take a look at your jaw. About 15% of people have a jaw that pops and many of them have pain from it. When i followed my dentists advice to get a bite guard for bruxism, diffuse neck and back pain i had for years was greatly reduced, focalized in one muscle, and responsive to ibuprofen. 6 mo later it feels like the kind of injury that takes a year or so to heal. My dentist referred me to an orthodontist who referred me to another practitioner until i'd reached a university medical center a 2hr drive away and was told the doc would call me back in 7 days. Review articles on pubmed said imaging and other procedures are not worth pursuing, maybe 100 papers were reviewed, 90% were rejected by Cochraine, the only supported treatment is biofeedback -- that is something you can sometimes do w/o equipment by feeling the muscle yourself or with your finger. Which I am doing this week and right now i feel great. There is some chip you can hook up to an arduino that i might try. This condition is 100% physical, 100% mental, 100% spiritual. Stress causing teeth grinding, that damages the jaw, a very small lesion can cause big pain and distress, more tooth grinding, ... it is depressing and for some people disabling.
amanaplanacanal 6y ago
Humans have only been sitting in chairs for the last two or three thousand years, and I think our bodies would thank us if we got rid of them completely. Our natural postures include sitting and lying on the ground, and standing, walking, running, and squatting. Our natural movements are moving between those natural positions. Chairs are probably hurting our posture in the same way running shoes are hurting our feet and knees.
ahmedfromtunis 6y ago
I had sever neck and upper back pain for years. My solution? I used cardboard boxes and old books I found laying around at the office so that my laptop's screen is at eye level (around 20 cm up, which made me realize how bad my posture was). Coworkers were laughing at me but I didn't care; just few days later and the pain all but disappeared. I couldn't be happier.
- therealdrag0 6y ago
  You can get good monitor arms to a Achieve this. Make sure to measure though because, as someone who is 6’, some have a max height lower than what I need. The nice thing about an arm is it’s easy to adjust when switching between sitting and standing. But I agree I can’t believe how far I had to scroll town to see someone mention monitor height.
  - ahmedfromtunis 6y ago
    I wish I could; but here (not USA) such equipment are hard to find and, when available they're generally way too expensive -- just link standing desks and even good, decent office chairs. Until this is no longer the case, my poor-man's platform will live on :,D
- toast0 6y ago
  Reams of paper are also good for raising monitors or laptops, and easily found in an office. Of course, if you use the screen and the keyboard of your laptop, you have to balance height of the screen (eye level should be about the middle of the screen) vs height of the keyboard (arms should be about level)
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
I had C1-C3 fusion[1], So the freedom of movement in my neck is severely limited. This aggravates neck/back pain when sitting before computer for > 30 mins. Obviously none of exercise mentioned in the article or most other neck exercises work for me. So I've built myself 'Butt Pomodoro'[2] which gets triggered when I sit, reminds me to move after 25 mins, to come back after 5 mins and a larger break of 30 mins after 4 such sessions. I got motivated to build this after a user in problem validation platform wanted a solution to remind them to take break from work without any user action and it ended up solving my problem too. [1]https://abishekmuthian.com/i-was-told-i-would-become-quadriplegic-68c0371e6f05/ https://abishekmuthian.com/i-was-told-i-would-become-quadrip... [2]https://abishekmuthian.com/butt-pomodoro-a-butt-triggered-pomodoro-timer/ https://abishekmuthian.com/butt-pomodoro-a-butt-triggered-po...
mactavish88 6y ago
These exercises are definitely not for everyone. I've been suffering with disequilibrium/vertigo for nearly a year now (no headaches, just a weird bobbing/floating/falling sensation that comes and goes). After brain/C-spine MRIs (all "normal"), countless blood tests, carotid ultrasound and vestibular testing, the only thing that's apparently wrong with me is that I have a "vestibular dysfunction". It's come and gone, which is apparently strange, and my family doctor still thinks I have "cervicogenic vertigo". After $2000 spent on physiotherapy, acupuncture and vestibular physiotherapy in 2020 I'm no better off. Some of the exercises recommended in this article were recommended to me too, and they made my disequilibrium significantly worse and gave me headaches. Then I found this article: https://mskneurology.com/vestibular-impairment-and-its-association-to-the-neck-and-tmj/ https://mskneurology.com/vestibular-impairment-and-its-assoc... Organized a consultation with with the guy who wrote the article and he took another look at my MRI. Turns out the radiologists totally missed several things that could clearly be causing my symptoms: - I've got forward head posture and the top of my neck's straightened. Possibly from previous whiplash injuries several years ago combined with many years' computer use. - My C1 vertebra seems to be compressing one of my internal jugular veins (one of the primary outflow veins from my brain). Radiologists are trained to ignore this sign apparently because it's so common, but this clearly affects the blood flow dynamics in your head and can apparently trigger migraines and other problems. With my C1 just 4mm too far forward, it almost totally closes off that vein. - The increased blood pressure in my head from the decreased outflow of blood clearly shows one of the signs of increased cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) pressure: an "empty sella sign" (my pituitary gland is squashed against the bone because of the increased pressure). Apparently increased blood pressure in the head causes increased CSF pressure, because they're related to each other. No mention of this sign in my radiology report. - This increased blood pressure might be interfering with blood drainage from my vestibular apparatus, which could be the cause of my weird vestibular problem. Of course, the MRI was taken while I was lying down, and other tests I had imply that my CSF pressure is normal while upright, but I lie down for 6-8 hours a night. How much damage is that increased CSF pressure doing while I sleep? I'm not sure, but I definitely tend to feel like shit most mornings, even though I sleep on average 7.5 hours a night. What I've learned from this experience so far: 1. If these exercises cause you headaches, don't do them, you might actually be doing them incorrectly or you. may have structural issues that cause these exercises to hurt yourself. Like me, you may need exercises tailored to your specific problems, so consulting with someone who knows what they're doing is super important. 2. If you're symptomatic and your radiologist says your MRIs are "normal", try get a second opinion. 3. I really wish more physiotherapists were trained in interpreting MRIs and doppler ultrasounds, especially to pick up on more subtle issues.
j7ake 6y ago
Does doing sit-ups exercise these muscles? I find that my neck goes forward when trying to do sit-ups.
01100011 6y ago
One thing that helped was a standing desk with monitor arms. When my neck hurts I change the height of my monitors so the angle of my neck changes. It's not a cure, but it helps. Also, shrugging my shoulders up to my ears periodically helps. PT docs tell me it's the wrong thing to do. I think they figure I'm strengthening my traps, but really I think the movement just helps reset something in my neck. YMMV. If you're twenty something and don't have physical issues from sitting in front of a computer all day, just wait, you will.
oh_sigh 6y ago
If people are giving out free pain advice in this thread, I have a mystery... I frequently wake up with pain in the left side of my neck, right under the base of my skull. When this happens, my right neck flexion is fine but my left neck flexion feels like something is misaligned and stops far sooner than flexing right. I also feel pain at the base of my neck near my SC joint, but a little towards the middle of my clavicle. The weirdest part is that when this happens, i spend all day stretching trying to undo the kink, and what fixes it is something that happens in my elbow - there's a loud clunk and a snap and then my neck feels better, my range of motion returns, and I feel like I have better feeling in my left hand. What gives? It literally feels like a structure(nerve or something) gets misaligned and is getting pulled in weird ways until at one point it snaps back into place.
bolangi 6y ago
Usually neck problems are accompanied by stiffness in the upper ribs and spin. More flexibility in these structures that support the neck will lead to less demands on the neck and more comfortable movement overall.
- antognini 6y ago
  How does one increase mobility in one's upper ribs?
  - bolangi 6y ago
    I studied a method where a series of related movements done slowly with attention helps parts of the body to move together more flexibly and fluidly. Here's an example, if you lie on your back, put your right palm on your forehead, fingers parallel to hairline or wrinkles in your forehead elbow in air... In this position, you can use the arm and hand to roll the head going very slowly over several seconds, taking a long time for the nose to move to the left just one centimeter. Just as slowly use your arm and hand to move the head back to the middle. By repeating it a few times while taking care to continue breathing smoothly in the background, it becomes possible for you to learn to use your arm muscles to roll the head gently and precisely, taking over the work usually done by the neck muscles. For their part, the neck muscles are learning to let go of habitual tonus to accept passive movement. Pause between movements. When you start again, go so gradually you can feel how soft intention to roll the head with the hand begins to manifest as movement. You can also try moving the head 1cm to the right. The head rolls differently that way and if you do it slowly you can feel the details. If you pay attention, you'll probably notice that when you roll the head like this, there are small supporting movements of the shoulder blade and sternum. You might feel a shift of weight to the left where you feel your upper ribs against the floor. Then you have a rest and go through this process using the other arm. You maybe think if you do more, you can force the stiff ribs to move, but it's the opposite: strong stretching movements, cause the ribs to protectively tighten themselves. (That's how I think about it, but of course it's actually muscles around the ribs that hold them in place.) Instead by going near the limit of slow and small movements, each movement generates more information, there is time and space for ribs, sternum, spine, shoulders, and head to let go and allow themselves to move together in a new way. Hundreds of these movement lessons devised by Moshe Feldenkrais to improve human functions are called Awareness Though Movement. Hands-on work for this same purpose is called Functional Integration.
SleepyTortoise 6y ago
For two years I had been suffering back pain from muscle spasms around my scapula, and pain in the joint between a rib and my spine. It would start every day at 12-2pm, and continue for the rest of the day. I worked out (incl. DL, Squat, running), but had to stop because it exacerbated the pain. Physio/Doctors/specialists/X-ray/MRI came up with nothing. WFH exacerbated the issue. It was impacting my life every day: I could only work for ~3 hours per day, and walking/driving became painful. I'm 95% better now, and working on rehab. Here's what helped (thanks to a spine physio): * Avoiding craning my neck: raise monitor, raise phone. * Frequent breaks. * Scapula mobility. * Deep neck flexor exercises. I think this started when I heavily used my laptop on my couch, which relied on craning too much. Resolving this has been my highlight of 2020.
tacon 6y ago
These exercises seem pretty tame for exercising the neck. There is a long history of ways to increase neck muscle strength. The Nautilus 4-way neck machines are the best engineered, though you won't find them in many gyms, probably because they can be very dangerous for untrained people. Under full load, a distraction that causes you to twist your head suddenly can seriously injure your neck. For cheap and safe neck exercises, the best method today is a combination of timed static contractions (TSC)[1] and a cheap webbed strap[2]. As with all strength training, intensity of effort is 80-90% of the training effect, followed by proper form. The disadvantage of TSCs is that there is no simple way to record your progress week to week as you grow stronger. But if you load and unload your neck slowly, you can exercise each of the four directions to momentary muscular failure (MMF) in a safe and very time efficient protocol. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8If3u67kw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8If3u67kw [1] http://ren-ex.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/TimedStaticContractions.pdf http://ren-ex.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/TimedStaticCont... [2] https://www.strapworks.com/Side_Release_Buckle_Belts_p/srbb2pew.htm https://www.strapworks.com/Side_Release_Buckle_Belts_p/srbb2...
- tacon 6y ago
  And for the problem of poor posture from "computer crouch", the simple answer is the machine in your gym labeled "rear delt"[0], often combined with "pec fly". Build up your strength on the rear delt machine and you are building exactly the muscles that restore your natural posture. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WP4mBAg3Ng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WP4mBAg3Ng

190 points by whereistimbo 6y ago

Can we get videos of these?

I neglected my sitting position for years, now I pay the price for it. Every time I turn my head it makes unpleasant cracking noises (luckily no pain), I went to the doctor who was not able help me further. Those exercise allow me to have some relief and to lessen the noise, but it's still there. Anyone in the same situation here?

qznc 6y ago
I was fine until Corona home office. Apparently I'm now too old to ignore these topics. Thanks to some inspiration from https://old.reddit.com/r/flexibility/ https://old.reddit.com/r/flexibility/ I'm ok again but not yet as good as a year ago.
freedomben 6y ago
I am. Had the cracking noises for years now, sometimes with pain, but mostly it's just a discomfort that won't go away. I do neck rolls to help sometimes but too much will cause inflammation so I'm conservative with them. Turning my head side to side regularly also seems to help with the discomfort. I'm guessing my neck will continue to sound like breaking bones for the rest of my life though.
- janmo 6y ago
  One of my ex-GF had this as well, she's a pianist (that's why)and for her it got away. So I guess there is hope.

cnasc 6y ago

Related, as a full-time keyboard jockey I have to make sure to take good care of my moneymakers. I’ve found this video of novel wrist and hand movements absolutely invaluable: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-hlWgH3_0NU https://youtube.com/watch?v=-hlWgH3_0NU

dec0dedab0de 6y ago

One thing that really helped me with back, and neck pain, and then later with all kinds of pain, is the trigger point therapy workbook. I forget which edition I have but there are one or two newer ones since then. I used to hurt myself and be useless for a week or two, since I got the book it's been a day or two. It's basically a guide for effective self massage. Funny side note, I learned about it from a character in a fictional book called sex drugs and blueberries, which I randomly picked up from the local section of a book store while visiting Maine about 10 years ago.

switch007 6y ago
I have this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self-Treatment/dp/1608824942 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trigger-Point-Therapy-Workbook-Self... ISBN 1608824942

bproven 6y ago

For neck/back pain I highly recommend strength training - specifically focused on posterior chain exercises like deadlifts, squats (if you do not have any serious preexisting injuries preventing you doing them). Even you are unable to do those a good solid barbell strenght training program can work wonders. Anecdontal for me, but I find whenever I stop training my back/neck pain comes back. Also important to move a few times a day if you are doing the kind of sitting work most of us do. I make sure that I take a 20-30 min walk before I start working and then at least 1 more time mid-day. This also helps a lot IMO

howardr 6y ago
+1 After doing moderate strength training in these areas along with core exercises as part of a cross training class (2x a week) my back pain that I’ve had for over a decade dissapeared.
polishdude20 6y ago
Same for me. I have this mindset now that whenever I get back pain I need to deadlift / squat it out albeit with a slightly lower weight than usual. It seems to go away every time after a few sets.
jacksonkmarley 6y ago
Same for me, deadlifts and squats (with good form) kept away my lower back pain. One caveat, when I first started there was a bit of a learning curve on how to get core bracing and posture right, and bad form made my back a bit sore. Unfortunately in the current virus situation the gym is out and my place isn't suitable for weight training. I'm starting some bodyweight exercises but they don't seem to help my back like the weight training did.
- PaulHoule 6y ago
  The most efficient kind of exercise to relieve low back pain involve bending backwards, such as the Cobra pose in Yoga https://www.dummies.com/health/exercise/yoga/how-to-do-the-cobra-pose-in-yoga/ https://www.dummies.com/health/exercise/yoga/how-to-do-the-c... See also https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/treat-your-own-back-robin-a-mckenzie/1101764194 https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/treat-your-own-back-robin-a... Cobra and the exercises from that book are easy to do at home but I like the bioenergetic arch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=225tAQzCVhs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=225tAQzCVhs because it is standing and you can do it anywhere, just please wear better clothes than the guy in that video.

namanyayg 6y ago

Might be unconventional, but I've noticed that _breath patterns_ and correct posture while stretching (i.e. being in a rounded neck posture while stretching probably adds to harm...) For that, I've found this video guide to be one of the best and it feels significantly better than others. https://yogawithadriene.com/10-minute-yoga-quickie-neck-shoulders-upper-back/ https://yogawithadriene.com/10-minute-yoga-quickie-neck-shou... I invite any HNer to try it out and _really focus on the mindset and breathing patterns_ recommended by the guide. It's excellent, especially the part where you put the opposite hand on the ear and stretch.

aaronbrethorst 6y ago
I started a yoga practice just over a year ago after I recovered from a terrible, constant series of back spasms brought on by working on my laptop on my couch for too long. I probably did yoga for one hour 2-3 times per week on average last year, which helped me avoid a repeat of my back issues. It’s helped me improve my flexibility, muscle tone, and my awareness of my body. What I mean by that last point is that I am more immediately aware when I experience back issues, now, and I also have a clearer sense of how to move and stretch my body to fix those issues before they become worse. Yoga is great, and really doesn’t require any special equipment. You can try out a video and get pretty far without needing to buy mats, blocks, straps, Lululemon clothes, etc.
- namanyayg 6y ago
  That is a great point about "awareness of the body". I found that a lot of neck pain stemmed from improper neck angles while viewing my dual monitor workstation. And I would be so numb to sensation that I would stay in the incorrect pose for hours, leading to pain when I got up from work. After some months of yoga, I am much more clearly able to recognise within minutes as soon as my neck is in any improper angle and fix it rather than letting it pain me after hours
  - aaronbrethorst 6y ago
    Yep, 100% agree. It's pretty cool.

melling 6y ago

While we certainly need to take care of our bodies, it would be helpful if we reinvented computers enough so we aren’t hunched over our computers all day. I sit relaxed with a tablet in my lap and use an Apple Pencil when possible. Of course, it’s not a great productivity device but at least it’s a slightly different position. Voice, cameras or radar for gestures, etc could be used to augment computing devices. 4 hours a day with a keyboard and the rest standing or sitting back using a different method of interface would be better. Soli everywhere? https://atap.google.com/soli/ https://atap.google.com/soli/

dahart 6y ago
If I could write code and attend meetings while I walk around, I’d be out walking and hiking all day. I’m imagining some fantasy where I could wear lightweight AR sunglasses and use gestures and/or voice control and somehow be able to do everything I do with my desktop. I’m not sure it’s realistic even ten years from now, but I’m also not sure this kind of setup is out of reach either. I use standing & treadmill desks on and off. They’re good for taking care of my body, but take effort to use consistently, and have some tradeoffs.
- melling 6y ago
  Wolfram has his “walking desks” https://boingboing.net/2019/03/04/stephen-wolfram-explains-his.html https://boingboing.net/2019/03/04/stephen-wolfram-explains-h... I like the one of him walking outside. The problem is he’s still using a keyboard.
  - vinceguidry 6y ago
    My problem is that his neck has to crane very far down.

mordymoop 6y ago

Doing these gives me a 100% guaranteed 3 day long headache.

renw0rp 6y ago

I started having problems with my elbow and two (when looking at my palm) innermost fingers (pinky and ring fingers). At the beginning I thought it's tennis elbow, but then started having problems with my neck as well and getting dizzy (vertigo, headache and sometimes nausea) when lying down and getting up from the bed. I've noticed that that happens most when my head is on flat surface and even more when it reclines back (when a physiotherapist lowered my head below the flat surface of the bed I was ling on). Did anyone experience something like this or has any advice? I did have an ultrasound and EMG (electromyography) done which did not show any problems in my elbow. I do exercise for my neck now and hope that will help... I might add some exercises from the OP to my routine. PS. Funnily my problems (at the beginning it was only elbow and fingers) started during lockdown, when I finally started doing yoga-type exercises and I felt like I'm getting better at it (I think it's just coincidence, not causation though).

jacksonkmarley 6y ago
Curious about this, what was the issue with your fingers? Pain or numbness?
- renw0rp 6y ago
  feeling weaker grip and sensations leading sometimes to clumsiness. I would describe it as slight numbness (in the sense of weaker sensations and a weird, kind of tingly feeling in the fingers). It was becoming a proper numbness when using phone/tablet for prolonged periods, but now I try to avoid doing that. I have similar tingly sensation in my elbow, and in the worst time I actually woke up at night with pain in the elbow. It's sometimes better, sometimes worse, and I'm trying what else (other than giving up my job and using computer) can I do to help relieve this issues. COVID pandemic is not helping either getting proper medical attention.
  - PaulHoule 6y ago
    Check your blood sugar

mancerayder 6y ago

Someone below wrote, " Doing these gives me a 100% guaranteed 3 day long headache. " I have something like this and I've spent many years trying to figure it out. One MRI (which showed nada), three or four doctors, several years of physical therapy, and a personal trainer who studied the problem later, and I am concluding the following: - I have loosey goosey joints more than other people. It's not extreme but enough. - I have usage of computers that far exceeds 90% of the population (12+ hours a day). - When the joints are loose, things get inflamed. When tendons and the joint structures get inflamed, the bodies responds protectively by tightening (turning on) stabilizer muscles - Stabilizer muscles can be weak and thus get overworked, causing spasms and other issues - Tight muscles can cause imbalances, further causing a chain reaction of more inflammation and spasms I've been doing weightlifting (not bodybuilding which you should not do if you value your body long-term! Strength Training and a bit of Olympic Weightlifting) for a number of years. I've been analyzing and thinking about posture for years. I'm typing this on a standing desk at home that has a monitor with an articulating arm (similar setup at work). I use left and right mice alternating. I sit and stand, alternating. I do neck stretches every morning and some isometric neck stuff. I suspect part of my problem is shoulder mobility so I also do daily scapular work. Yet. I suffer from neck pain every few days with flare-ups that last days and sometimes go away for a week or two. Medicine: You Suck! We can send robots to Mars and make self-driving cars, but due to the incoherence of modern medicine, I spend hours watching Yoga and PT videos and end up memorizing the names of bones and joints and physiological movements. And I suffer. Fuck you, Medicine! Glad I got that off my chest.

newsclues 6y ago
Got hit by a car and I’ve concluded doctors are largely a decade or more out of date on a lot of things, especially diet and non-obvious injuries.
- mancerayder 6y ago
  I feel like medicine teaches you the facts - the hip bone is connected to the, leg bone - but in terms of 'troubleshooting skills', there is something deeply missing.

PaulHoule 6y ago

For neck pain take a look at your jaw. About 15% of people have a jaw that pops and many of them have pain from it. When i followed my dentists advice to get a bite guard for bruxism, diffuse neck and back pain i had for years was greatly reduced, focalized in one muscle, and responsive to ibuprofen. 6 mo later it feels like the kind of injury that takes a year or so to heal. My dentist referred me to an orthodontist who referred me to another practitioner until i'd reached a university medical center a 2hr drive away and was told the doc would call me back in 7 days. Review articles on pubmed said imaging and other procedures are not worth pursuing, maybe 100 papers were reviewed, 90% were rejected by Cochraine, the only supported treatment is biofeedback -- that is something you can sometimes do w/o equipment by feeling the muscle yourself or with your finger. Which I am doing this week and right now i feel great. There is some chip you can hook up to an arduino that i might try. This condition is 100% physical, 100% mental, 100% spiritual. Stress causing teeth grinding, that damages the jaw, a very small lesion can cause big pain and distress, more tooth grinding, ... it is depressing and for some people disabling.

amanaplanacanal 6y ago

Humans have only been sitting in chairs for the last two or three thousand years, and I think our bodies would thank us if we got rid of them completely. Our natural postures include sitting and lying on the ground, and standing, walking, running, and squatting. Our natural movements are moving between those natural positions. Chairs are probably hurting our posture in the same way running shoes are hurting our feet and knees.

ahmedfromtunis 6y ago

I had sever neck and upper back pain for years. My solution? I used cardboard boxes and old books I found laying around at the office so that my laptop's screen is at eye level (around 20 cm up, which made me realize how bad my posture was). Coworkers were laughing at me but I didn't care; just few days later and the pain all but disappeared. I couldn't be happier.

therealdrag0 6y ago
You can get good monitor arms to a Achieve this. Make sure to measure though because, as someone who is 6’, some have a max height lower than what I need. The nice thing about an arm is it’s easy to adjust when switching between sitting and standing. But I agree I can’t believe how far I had to scroll town to see someone mention monitor height.
- ahmedfromtunis 6y ago
  I wish I could; but here (not USA) such equipment are hard to find and, when available they're generally way too expensive -- just link standing desks and even good, decent office chairs. Until this is no longer the case, my poor-man's platform will live on :,D
toast0 6y ago
Reams of paper are also good for raising monitors or laptops, and easily found in an office. Of course, if you use the screen and the keyboard of your laptop, you have to balance height of the screen (eye level should be about the middle of the screen) vs height of the keyboard (arms should be about level)

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

I had C1-C3 fusion[1], So the freedom of movement in my neck is severely limited. This aggravates neck/back pain when sitting before computer for > 30 mins. Obviously none of exercise mentioned in the article or most other neck exercises work for me. So I've built myself 'Butt Pomodoro'[2] which gets triggered when I sit, reminds me to move after 25 mins, to come back after 5 mins and a larger break of 30 mins after 4 such sessions. I got motivated to build this after a user in problem validation platform wanted a solution to remind them to take break from work without any user action and it ended up solving my problem too. [1]https://abishekmuthian.com/i-was-told-i-would-become-quadriplegic-68c0371e6f05/ https://abishekmuthian.com/i-was-told-i-would-become-quadrip... [2]https://abishekmuthian.com/butt-pomodoro-a-butt-triggered-pomodoro-timer/ https://abishekmuthian.com/butt-pomodoro-a-butt-triggered-po...

mactavish88 6y ago

These exercises are definitely not for everyone. I've been suffering with disequilibrium/vertigo for nearly a year now (no headaches, just a weird bobbing/floating/falling sensation that comes and goes). After brain/C-spine MRIs (all "normal"), countless blood tests, carotid ultrasound and vestibular testing, the only thing that's apparently wrong with me is that I have a "vestibular dysfunction". It's come and gone, which is apparently strange, and my family doctor still thinks I have "cervicogenic vertigo". After $2000 spent on physiotherapy, acupuncture and vestibular physiotherapy in 2020 I'm no better off. Some of the exercises recommended in this article were recommended to me too, and they made my disequilibrium significantly worse and gave me headaches. Then I found this article: https://mskneurology.com/vestibular-impairment-and-its-association-to-the-neck-and-tmj/ https://mskneurology.com/vestibular-impairment-and-its-assoc... Organized a consultation with with the guy who wrote the article and he took another look at my MRI. Turns out the radiologists totally missed several things that could clearly be causing my symptoms: - I've got forward head posture and the top of my neck's straightened. Possibly from previous whiplash injuries several years ago combined with many years' computer use. - My C1 vertebra seems to be compressing one of my internal jugular veins (one of the primary outflow veins from my brain). Radiologists are trained to ignore this sign apparently because it's so common, but this clearly affects the blood flow dynamics in your head and can apparently trigger migraines and other problems. With my C1 just 4mm too far forward, it almost totally closes off that vein. - The increased blood pressure in my head from the decreased outflow of blood clearly shows one of the signs of increased cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) pressure: an "empty sella sign" (my pituitary gland is squashed against the bone because of the increased pressure). Apparently increased blood pressure in the head causes increased CSF pressure, because they're related to each other. No mention of this sign in my radiology report. - This increased blood pressure might be interfering with blood drainage from my vestibular apparatus, which could be the cause of my weird vestibular problem. Of course, the MRI was taken while I was lying down, and other tests I had imply that my CSF pressure is normal while upright, but I lie down for 6-8 hours a night. How much damage is that increased CSF pressure doing while I sleep? I'm not sure, but I definitely tend to feel like shit most mornings, even though I sleep on average 7.5 hours a night. What I've learned from this experience so far: 1. If these exercises cause you headaches, don't do them, you might actually be doing them incorrectly or you. may have structural issues that cause these exercises to hurt yourself. Like me, you may need exercises tailored to your specific problems, so consulting with someone who knows what they're doing is super important. 2. If you're symptomatic and your radiologist says your MRIs are "normal", try get a second opinion. 3. I really wish more physiotherapists were trained in interpreting MRIs and doppler ultrasounds, especially to pick up on more subtle issues.

j7ake 6y ago

Does doing sit-ups exercise these muscles? I find that my neck goes forward when trying to do sit-ups.

01100011 6y ago

One thing that helped was a standing desk with monitor arms. When my neck hurts I change the height of my monitors so the angle of my neck changes. It's not a cure, but it helps. Also, shrugging my shoulders up to my ears periodically helps. PT docs tell me it's the wrong thing to do. I think they figure I'm strengthening my traps, but really I think the movement just helps reset something in my neck. YMMV. If you're twenty something and don't have physical issues from sitting in front of a computer all day, just wait, you will.

oh_sigh 6y ago

If people are giving out free pain advice in this thread, I have a mystery... I frequently wake up with pain in the left side of my neck, right under the base of my skull. When this happens, my right neck flexion is fine but my left neck flexion feels like something is misaligned and stops far sooner than flexing right. I also feel pain at the base of my neck near my SC joint, but a little towards the middle of my clavicle. The weirdest part is that when this happens, i spend all day stretching trying to undo the kink, and what fixes it is something that happens in my elbow - there's a loud clunk and a snap and then my neck feels better, my range of motion returns, and I feel like I have better feeling in my left hand. What gives? It literally feels like a structure(nerve or something) gets misaligned and is getting pulled in weird ways until at one point it snaps back into place.

bolangi 6y ago

Usually neck problems are accompanied by stiffness in the upper ribs and spin. More flexibility in these structures that support the neck will lead to less demands on the neck and more comfortable movement overall.

antognini 6y ago
How does one increase mobility in one's upper ribs?
- bolangi 6y ago
  I studied a method where a series of related movements done slowly with attention helps parts of the body to move together more flexibly and fluidly. Here's an example, if you lie on your back, put your right palm on your forehead, fingers parallel to hairline or wrinkles in your forehead elbow in air... In this position, you can use the arm and hand to roll the head going very slowly over several seconds, taking a long time for the nose to move to the left just one centimeter. Just as slowly use your arm and hand to move the head back to the middle. By repeating it a few times while taking care to continue breathing smoothly in the background, it becomes possible for you to learn to use your arm muscles to roll the head gently and precisely, taking over the work usually done by the neck muscles. For their part, the neck muscles are learning to let go of habitual tonus to accept passive movement. Pause between movements. When you start again, go so gradually you can feel how soft intention to roll the head with the hand begins to manifest as movement. You can also try moving the head 1cm to the right. The head rolls differently that way and if you do it slowly you can feel the details. If you pay attention, you'll probably notice that when you roll the head like this, there are small supporting movements of the shoulder blade and sternum. You might feel a shift of weight to the left where you feel your upper ribs against the floor. Then you have a rest and go through this process using the other arm. You maybe think if you do more, you can force the stiff ribs to move, but it's the opposite: strong stretching movements, cause the ribs to protectively tighten themselves. (That's how I think about it, but of course it's actually muscles around the ribs that hold them in place.) Instead by going near the limit of slow and small movements, each movement generates more information, there is time and space for ribs, sternum, spine, shoulders, and head to let go and allow themselves to move together in a new way. Hundreds of these movement lessons devised by Moshe Feldenkrais to improve human functions are called Awareness Though Movement. Hands-on work for this same purpose is called Functional Integration.

SleepyTortoise 6y ago

For two years I had been suffering back pain from muscle spasms around my scapula, and pain in the joint between a rib and my spine. It would start every day at 12-2pm, and continue for the rest of the day. I worked out (incl. DL, Squat, running), but had to stop because it exacerbated the pain. Physio/Doctors/specialists/X-ray/MRI came up with nothing. WFH exacerbated the issue. It was impacting my life every day: I could only work for ~3 hours per day, and walking/driving became painful. I'm 95% better now, and working on rehab. Here's what helped (thanks to a spine physio): * Avoiding craning my neck: raise monitor, raise phone. * Frequent breaks. * Scapula mobility. * Deep neck flexor exercises. I think this started when I heavily used my laptop on my couch, which relied on craning too much. Resolving this has been my highlight of 2020.

tacon 6y ago

These exercises seem pretty tame for exercising the neck. There is a long history of ways to increase neck muscle strength. The Nautilus 4-way neck machines are the best engineered, though you won't find them in many gyms, probably because they can be very dangerous for untrained people. Under full load, a distraction that causes you to twist your head suddenly can seriously injure your neck. For cheap and safe neck exercises, the best method today is a combination of timed static contractions (TSC)[1] and a cheap webbed strap[2]. As with all strength training, intensity of effort is 80-90% of the training effect, followed by proper form. The disadvantage of TSCs is that there is no simple way to record your progress week to week as you grow stronger. But if you load and unload your neck slowly, you can exercise each of the four directions to momentary muscular failure (MMF) in a safe and very time efficient protocol. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8If3u67kw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8If3u67kw [1] http://ren-ex.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/TimedStaticContractions.pdf http://ren-ex.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/TimedStaticCont... [2] https://www.strapworks.com/Side_Release_Buckle_Belts_p/srbb2pew.htm https://www.strapworks.com/Side_Release_Buckle_Belts_p/srbb2...

tacon 6y ago
And for the problem of poor posture from "computer crouch", the simple answer is the machine in your gym labeled "rear delt"[0], often combined with "pec fly". Build up your strength on the rear delt machine and you are building exactly the muscles that restore your natural posture. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WP4mBAg3Ng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WP4mBAg3Ng