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I still fail to see how requiring a person Show ID on election day is "suppression" You can not function in modern society with our showing ID at various times

by syshum 6y ago

I still fail to see how requiring a person Show ID on election day is "suppression" You can not function in modern society with our showing ID at various times, you can no rent a hotel room, a car, cash a check or hell even return merchandise to a store in many cases with out a ID But you are telling me on of the most important civic responsibilities is suppressed by showing an ID, and ID that is freely available at no cost to all citizens Come on Man...

wtallis 6y ago
I'm guessing you've made no attempt to look into the specifics of the legal challenges that have been successfully waged against voter ID laws. In particular, " and ID that is freely available at no cost to all citizens" is something that many states have failed to provide as part of their voter ID laws. And the context surrounding these laws is relevant, because in many cases the discriminatory intent is plain as day. The assumptions you're making about how universal photo ID requirements are in day to day life fall apart when you consider the specific demographics that have been targeted. Taken together with the fact that these voter ID laws notionally address a problem that is only barely more than hypothetical, it's impossible to see these laws as anything other than political grandstanding and attempted voter suppression. They are much worse than merely being a solution in search of a problem. It is possible to present the general idea of voter ID requirements as a harmless, well-intended security measure—as your comment attempts. But even the most cursory investigation into the specifics or history of voter ID in the US reveals that it is not harmless, does not solve a real problem, and is backed by malicious intentions. Which is why any "innocent" attempt to support the idea cannot be taken at face value. That well has been poisoned by an overwhelming volume of disingenuous propaganda.
- syshum 6y ago
  Feel free to cite what states have passed Voter ID laws and have no freely available ID's Most states have had Free State ID's for longer than voter ID. >>That well has been poisoned by an overwhelming volume of disingenuous propaganda. There has been disingenuous propaganda on both sides of this debate you seem to only be able to recognize one side though
clort 6y ago
Of course it is reasonable to suppose that we need to ensure that people are who they say they are but that is a diversion! It is suppression because showing it on the election day is not the problem, it is getting that ID in the first place. The people who have problems getting that are largely specific categories of people, and the suppression comes via the obstructions which seem to have been purposefully put in place, years before the ID was required, and active opposition to removing them. This quote, from Anatole France (The Red Lily, published 1894) summarizes it well: The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. PS the things you mention, wrt 'modern society' ? Yeah, those things are also difficult for people who have not got ID and the people who have difficulty getting ID? They simply don't do those things.
- syshum 6y ago
  >>suppression comes via the obstructions which seem to have been purposefully put in place, years before the ID was required, and active opposition to removing them. Such as, I would love to see a list of what you consider to be unreasonable obstructions to obtaining an ID. I have a strong feeling we will not agree as to either their unreasonableness or that they are obstructions >>This quote, from Anatole France (The Red Lily, published 1894) summarizes it well: So what is your solution, just allow people to steal as long as they are in need? Sounds like you are advocating for a system not based on individual equality under the law, but a cast system where your position determine how the law treats you, except you would find it "just" if the system punished those you perceived as successful or to use the a more common phrase from authoritarian circles "privileged" and excuse the actions of those deemed to not have said "privilege" That is not a system I can get behind, I firmly and unequally believe in individual equality Everyone should be treated the exact same by government no matter their age, race, religion, creed, national origin, sex, orientation, income, or any other characteristic beyond their individual actions

by syshum 6y ago

wtallis 6y ago

I'm guessing you've made no attempt to look into the specifics of the legal challenges that have been successfully waged against voter ID laws. In particular, " and ID that is freely available at no cost to all citizens" is something that many states have failed to provide as part of their voter ID laws. And the context surrounding these laws is relevant, because in many cases the discriminatory intent is plain as day. The assumptions you're making about how universal photo ID requirements are in day to day life fall apart when you consider the specific demographics that have been targeted. Taken together with the fact that these voter ID laws notionally address a problem that is only barely more than hypothetical, it's impossible to see these laws as anything other than political grandstanding and attempted voter suppression. They are much worse than merely being a solution in search of a problem. It is possible to present the general idea of voter ID requirements as a harmless, well-intended security measure—as your comment attempts. But even the most cursory investigation into the specifics or history of voter ID in the US reveals that it is not harmless, does not solve a real problem, and is backed by malicious intentions. Which is why any "innocent" attempt to support the idea cannot be taken at face value. That well has been poisoned by an overwhelming volume of disingenuous propaganda.

syshum 6y ago
Feel free to cite what states have passed Voter ID laws and have no freely available ID's Most states have had Free State ID's for longer than voter ID. >>That well has been poisoned by an overwhelming volume of disingenuous propaganda. There has been disingenuous propaganda on both sides of this debate you seem to only be able to recognize one side though

clort 6y ago

Of course it is reasonable to suppose that we need to ensure that people are who they say they are but that is a diversion! It is suppression because showing it on the election day is not the problem, it is getting that ID in the first place. The people who have problems getting that are largely specific categories of people, and the suppression comes via the obstructions which seem to have been purposefully put in place, years before the ID was required, and active opposition to removing them. This quote, from Anatole France (The Red Lily, published 1894) summarizes it well: The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread. PS the things you mention, wrt 'modern society' ? Yeah, those things are also difficult for people who have not got ID and the people who have difficulty getting ID? They simply don't do those things.

syshum 6y ago
>>suppression comes via the obstructions which seem to have been purposefully put in place, years before the ID was required, and active opposition to removing them. Such as, I would love to see a list of what you consider to be unreasonable obstructions to obtaining an ID. I have a strong feeling we will not agree as to either their unreasonableness or that they are obstructions >>This quote, from Anatole France (The Red Lily, published 1894) summarizes it well: So what is your solution, just allow people to steal as long as they are in need? Sounds like you are advocating for a system not based on individual equality under the law, but a cast system where your position determine how the law treats you, except you would find it "just" if the system punished those you perceived as successful or to use the a more common phrase from authoritarian circles "privileged" and excuse the actions of those deemed to not have said "privilege" That is not a system I can get behind, I firmly and unequally believe in individual equality Everyone should be treated the exact same by government no matter their age, race, religion, creed, national origin, sex, orientation, income, or any other characteristic beyond their individual actions