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Wait until you try to move away from the expat circles and start integrating with the Dutchies if you plan on staying long term. It's a famously "tolerant" so

Wait until you try to move away from the expat circles and start integrating with the Dutchies if you plan on staying long term. It's a famously "tolerant" society yet incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. I left Amsterdam after 4yrs last November.... and had the best years of my life immersed in music, art and culture from every corner of the planet. Brexit was why I moved originally and now I'm in another EU country.

stevesimmons 6y ago
> It's a famously "tolerant" society yet incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. Yes, I experienced that when I moved to Amsterdam the first time in 2000. Rather than being uniquely Dutch, though, I suspect it reflects the experience of expats everywhere. Fast forward to 2021, I guess I am an expat here but I don't feel exactly like one. My husband is Dutch and I speak Dutch nearly fluently. And while we were based in London for 14 years, we kept his Amsterdam apartment and visited once or twice a month. Anyway, back to the topic of bikes in the Netherlands, we current own two bikes each (two city bikes, a touring bike and a MTB) and in the spring will buy a third (two race bikes)!
- comprev 6y ago
  Being a cyclist I loved the infrastructure but got so bored with the landscape it was one of the primary factors for leaving the country. It was a great country to boost my career but the lack of hills/mountains/nature (not designed by humans) eventually forced me to leave. On the topic of bikes... I’ve got in the spare room: Orange 224 + P7 (both 2008); Genesis Flyer (2019); Canondale CAAD8 (2010); Production Privee Shan No.5 (2020)... and a Sparta Dutch city bike with a huge basket and panniers :) Pretty much covered for any scenario!
dzhiurgis 6y ago
> incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. Rest assured thats the case everywhere (well anecdotal evidence of N=2). I do too love Netherlands and bike culture, but much like most of Western Europe it is overdeveloped and too synthetic. I'm not a huge nature fan, but does NL even has any sort of country-side housing? Another question is how they deal with bureaucracy and how much of common sense does average citizen or governor has? I thought I was hacky and handy until I moved to NZ to learn so much about farming while still living minutes away from metropolis.
- stevesimmons 6y ago
  The Netherlands is crowded, especially in the randstad (Amsterdam-Utrecht-Rotterdam). There are some big natural areas in the east of the country. And houses with more space in the less populated farming areas of Friesland. But still not real nature. I grew up in Australia and my idea of nature is seeing virtually noone for 50km in any direction :)
  - mvanbaak 6y ago
    When driving 50km away from amsterdam, you are in another country (Belgium) ;P So yeah, countries like Australia have nature like you describe. But the very small country .nl has 17m+ inhabitants, which makes it a bit impossible to have large areas with NOTHING.
    - stevesimmons 6y ago
      > driving 50km away from amsterdam, you are in another country (Belgium) ;P More like 100km (and 180km to the "drielandenpunt" where NL/BE/DE meet), but still nearby... When I first arrived in Amsterdam and got a company car, I decided to have a day trip to Germany. I left Amsterdam after breakfast, drove for a bit, crossed the German border, stopped for a coffee, and was back home in Amsterdam by 1pm. Coming from Australia, where the nearest state capital to Melbourne is a 9 hour drive, that blew my mind.

stevesimmons 6y ago

> It's a famously "tolerant" society yet incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. Yes, I experienced that when I moved to Amsterdam the first time in 2000. Rather than being uniquely Dutch, though, I suspect it reflects the experience of expats everywhere. Fast forward to 2021, I guess I am an expat here but I don't feel exactly like one. My husband is Dutch and I speak Dutch nearly fluently. And while we were based in London for 14 years, we kept his Amsterdam apartment and visited once or twice a month. Anyway, back to the topic of bikes in the Netherlands, we current own two bikes each (two city bikes, a touring bike and a MTB) and in the spring will buy a third (two race bikes)!

comprev 6y ago
Being a cyclist I loved the infrastructure but got so bored with the landscape it was one of the primary factors for leaving the country. It was a great country to boost my career but the lack of hills/mountains/nature (not designed by humans) eventually forced me to leave. On the topic of bikes... I’ve got in the spare room: Orange 224 + P7 (both 2008); Genesis Flyer (2019); Canondale CAAD8 (2010); Production Privee Shan No.5 (2020)... and a Sparta Dutch city bike with a huge basket and panniers :) Pretty much covered for any scenario!

dzhiurgis 6y ago

> incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. Rest assured thats the case everywhere (well anecdotal evidence of N=2). I do too love Netherlands and bike culture, but much like most of Western Europe it is overdeveloped and too synthetic. I'm not a huge nature fan, but does NL even has any sort of country-side housing? Another question is how they deal with bureaucracy and how much of common sense does average citizen or governor has? I thought I was hacky and handy until I moved to NZ to learn so much about farming while still living minutes away from metropolis.

stevesimmons 6y ago
The Netherlands is crowded, especially in the randstad (Amsterdam-Utrecht-Rotterdam). There are some big natural areas in the east of the country. And houses with more space in the less populated farming areas of Friesland. But still not real nature. I grew up in Australia and my idea of nature is seeing virtually noone for 50km in any direction :)
- mvanbaak 6y ago
  When driving 50km away from amsterdam, you are in another country (Belgium) ;P So yeah, countries like Australia have nature like you describe. But the very small country .nl has 17m+ inhabitants, which makes it a bit impossible to have large areas with NOTHING.
  - stevesimmons 6y ago
    > driving 50km away from amsterdam, you are in another country (Belgium) ;P More like 100km (and 180km to the "drielandenpunt" where NL/BE/DE meet), but still nearby... When I first arrived in Amsterdam and got a company car, I decided to have a day trip to Germany. I left Amsterdam after breakfast, drove for a bit, crossed the German border, stopped for a coffee, and was back home in Amsterdam by 1pm. Coming from Australia, where the nearest state capital to Melbourne is a 9 hour drive, that blew my mind.