4 ms·

The Netherlands truly is a civilised and sensible country. Last month I left London for Amsterdam, leaving behind Brexit and the UK's shambolic handling of Cov

The Netherlands truly is a civilised and sensible country. Last month I left London for Amsterdam, leaving behind Brexit and the UK's shambolic handling of Covid. Yesterday was my first day in my new office: a large, peaceful space in a quiet corner of central Amsterdam, overlooking a canal, two minutes walk from home. (Ironically, everything I need is now so close I hardly cycle anywhere.)

brnt 6y ago
> The Netherlands truly is a civilised and sensible country. How I wish I could agree. Living in the center of Amsterdam is something well outside realistic possibilities of Dutchmen nowadays. Dont confuse capitals for countries. As a former Londoner you must be aware of that (or not!). But thats a topic for another discussion.
- EdSchouten 6y ago
  Do you wish to imply that outside of the center of Amsterdam, it’s not civilized and sensible? Life in the Netherlands is pretty good in my experience, regardless of where you live exactly. I’ve spent almost my entire life in the Nijmegen, Eindhoven and Den Bosch area. I’d actually prefer it over Amsterdam...
  - comprev 6y ago
    From experience it's very efficient especially dealing with Government, banks and other large institutions. The public transport network is superb too - OVfiets opens up a world of exploring on two wheels!
  - brnt 6y ago
    No, just that your observations are based on living in a way accessible to ever fewer Dutchmen. The generalizing statement that Dutchmen are sensible I would argue is as incorrect as it is anywhere. The quality of cycling infra is nearly everywhere good.
comprev 6y ago
Wait until you try to move away from the expat circles and start integrating with the Dutchies if you plan on staying long term. It's a famously "tolerant" society yet incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. I left Amsterdam after 4yrs last November.... and had the best years of my life immersed in music, art and culture from every corner of the planet. Brexit was why I moved originally and now I'm in another EU country.
- stevesimmons 6y ago
  > It's a famously "tolerant" society yet incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. Yes, I experienced that when I moved to Amsterdam the first time in 2000. Rather than being uniquely Dutch, though, I suspect it reflects the experience of expats everywhere. Fast forward to 2021, I guess I am an expat here but I don't feel exactly like one. My husband is Dutch and I speak Dutch nearly fluently. And while we were based in London for 14 years, we kept his Amsterdam apartment and visited once or twice a month. Anyway, back to the topic of bikes in the Netherlands, we current own two bikes each (two city bikes, a touring bike and a MTB) and in the spring will buy a third (two race bikes)!
  - comprev 6y ago
    Being a cyclist I loved the infrastructure but got so bored with the landscape it was one of the primary factors for leaving the country. It was a great country to boost my career but the lack of hills/mountains/nature (not designed by humans) eventually forced me to leave. On the topic of bikes... I’ve got in the spare room: Orange 224 + P7 (both 2008); Genesis Flyer (2019); Canondale CAAD8 (2010); Production Privee Shan No.5 (2020)... and a Sparta Dutch city bike with a huge basket and panniers :) Pretty much covered for any scenario!
- dzhiurgis 6y ago
  > incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. Rest assured thats the case everywhere (well anecdotal evidence of N=2). I do too love Netherlands and bike culture, but much like most of Western Europe it is overdeveloped and too synthetic. I'm not a huge nature fan, but does NL even has any sort of country-side housing? Another question is how they deal with bureaucracy and how much of common sense does average citizen or governor has? I thought I was hacky and handy until I moved to NZ to learn so much about farming while still living minutes away from metropolis.

brnt 6y ago

> The Netherlands truly is a civilised and sensible country. How I wish I could agree. Living in the center of Amsterdam is something well outside realistic possibilities of Dutchmen nowadays. Dont confuse capitals for countries. As a former Londoner you must be aware of that (or not!). But thats a topic for another discussion.

EdSchouten 6y ago
Do you wish to imply that outside of the center of Amsterdam, it’s not civilized and sensible? Life in the Netherlands is pretty good in my experience, regardless of where you live exactly. I’ve spent almost my entire life in the Nijmegen, Eindhoven and Den Bosch area. I’d actually prefer it over Amsterdam...
- comprev 6y ago
  From experience it's very efficient especially dealing with Government, banks and other large institutions. The public transport network is superb too - OVfiets opens up a world of exploring on two wheels!
- brnt 6y ago
  No, just that your observations are based on living in a way accessible to ever fewer Dutchmen. The generalizing statement that Dutchmen are sensible I would argue is as incorrect as it is anywhere. The quality of cycling infra is nearly everywhere good.

comprev 6y ago

Wait until you try to move away from the expat circles and start integrating with the Dutchies if you plan on staying long term. It's a famously "tolerant" society yet incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. I left Amsterdam after 4yrs last November.... and had the best years of my life immersed in music, art and culture from every corner of the planet. Brexit was why I moved originally and now I'm in another EU country.

stevesimmons 6y ago
> It's a famously "tolerant" society yet incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. Yes, I experienced that when I moved to Amsterdam the first time in 2000. Rather than being uniquely Dutch, though, I suspect it reflects the experience of expats everywhere. Fast forward to 2021, I guess I am an expat here but I don't feel exactly like one. My husband is Dutch and I speak Dutch nearly fluently. And while we were based in London for 14 years, we kept his Amsterdam apartment and visited once or twice a month. Anyway, back to the topic of bikes in the Netherlands, we current own two bikes each (two city bikes, a touring bike and a MTB) and in the spring will buy a third (two race bikes)!
- comprev 6y ago
  Being a cyclist I loved the infrastructure but got so bored with the landscape it was one of the primary factors for leaving the country. It was a great country to boost my career but the lack of hills/mountains/nature (not designed by humans) eventually forced me to leave. On the topic of bikes... I’ve got in the spare room: Orange 224 + P7 (both 2008); Genesis Flyer (2019); Canondale CAAD8 (2010); Production Privee Shan No.5 (2020)... and a Sparta Dutch city bike with a huge basket and panniers :) Pretty much covered for any scenario!
dzhiurgis 6y ago
> incredibly difficult to break into Dutch friendship circles who've known each other since birth. Rest assured thats the case everywhere (well anecdotal evidence of N=2). I do too love Netherlands and bike culture, but much like most of Western Europe it is overdeveloped and too synthetic. I'm not a huge nature fan, but does NL even has any sort of country-side housing? Another question is how they deal with bureaucracy and how much of common sense does average citizen or governor has? I thought I was hacky and handy until I moved to NZ to learn so much about farming while still living minutes away from metropolis.