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Calling that a coup is pretty insensitive towards people who have actually been through coups, especially since it's usually the US establishment govenments fun

by ulucs 6y ago

Calling that a coup is pretty insensitive towards people who have actually been through coups, especially since it's usually the US establishment govenments funding and protecting the perpetrators.

tehjoker 6y ago
It wasn't successful or nearly successful, but I saw some potential for creating a drawn out process that could create the space for more support for them (but they failed). I am well aware of the hideous things the US does around the world and organize to try to stop further interventions. This was not on the same level, but I don't think it's helpful to deny that the objective of these guys was to overturn the election and they had institutional support from the President, legislators, and it appears the Capitol Police. Off duty cops and military were in the crowd. It just wasn't sufficient or well enough planned. In my opinion, what we witnessed is the farce part of the classic quote: "Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."
nitrogen 6y ago
Calling that a coup is pretty insensitive towards people who have actually been through coups With the utmost sympathy for those who have experienced coups and aware of the crap "enlightened" governments pull around the world... I do want to say that gatekeeping and shaming of the form "using [word X] is insensitive to the people of real [word X]" is one of the trends that is amplifying division in the US. There's probably a better way we can acknowledge worse problems without inadvertently damaging discourse. That said... an attempted coup can take many forms.
- ulucs 6y ago
  Eh, you're speaking from a position of privilege that I can't comprehend. But I can assure you I'm not being offended theoretically for someone else's sake.
fra 6y ago
to-may-to to-mah-to. The president incited a mob to attack congress. Pipe bombs were planted, law enforcement agents were injured and killed, the aim was to disrupt a legitimate election. Was it clumsy? Yes. Doomed to failure? Absolutely. But make no mistake, had the crowd encountered some of the members of congress they dislike it would have ended much more poorly. I don't think it's much of a stretch to call it an uncoordinated, ham-fisted attempt at a coup.
rswail 6y ago
Trump incited sedition and insurrection, leading to an attempt by the mob to take over the seat of US government, with members of that mob stating publicly that they had every intention to take prisoners and execute the two individuals next in line to the Presidency. How is that not an attempted coup d'etat?

by ulucs 6y ago

Calling that a coup is pretty insensitive towards people who have actually been through coups, especially since it's usually the US establishment govenments funding and protecting the perpetrators.

tehjoker 6y ago

It wasn't successful or nearly successful, but I saw some potential for creating a drawn out process that could create the space for more support for them (but they failed). I am well aware of the hideous things the US does around the world and organize to try to stop further interventions. This was not on the same level, but I don't think it's helpful to deny that the objective of these guys was to overturn the election and they had institutional support from the President, legislators, and it appears the Capitol Police. Off duty cops and military were in the crowd. It just wasn't sufficient or well enough planned. In my opinion, what we witnessed is the farce part of the classic quote: "Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce."

nitrogen 6y ago

Calling that a coup is pretty insensitive towards people who have actually been through coups With the utmost sympathy for those who have experienced coups and aware of the crap "enlightened" governments pull around the world... I do want to say that gatekeeping and shaming of the form "using [word X] is insensitive to the people of real [word X]" is one of the trends that is amplifying division in the US. There's probably a better way we can acknowledge worse problems without inadvertently damaging discourse. That said... an attempted coup can take many forms.

ulucs 6y ago
Eh, you're speaking from a position of privilege that I can't comprehend. But I can assure you I'm not being offended theoretically for someone else's sake.

fra 6y ago

to-may-to to-mah-to. The president incited a mob to attack congress. Pipe bombs were planted, law enforcement agents were injured and killed, the aim was to disrupt a legitimate election. Was it clumsy? Yes. Doomed to failure? Absolutely. But make no mistake, had the crowd encountered some of the members of congress they dislike it would have ended much more poorly. I don't think it's much of a stretch to call it an uncoordinated, ham-fisted attempt at a coup.

rswail 6y ago

Trump incited sedition and insurrection, leading to an attempt by the mob to take over the seat of US government, with members of that mob stating publicly that they had every intention to take prisoners and execute the two individuals next in line to the Presidency. How is that not an attempted coup d'etat?