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But your own post makes clear the problem with your logic. This isn’t about convincing people. It’s about the fact that people’s political views are guided by g

But your own post makes clear the problem with your logic. This isn’t about convincing people. It’s about the fact that people’s political views are guided by gut, instinct and the bubbles they’re in instead of by critical thinking. These people believe abortion is killing an innocent baby. They don’t want their tax dollars spent on thing X. They believe the election was rigged — evidence doesn’t come into it. How do you change what people believe? I think we’ve tried rational debate. God knows I have. It’s frustrating to be told over and over, “well, if you just explained better...” when the people I’m trying to convince aren’t interested in learning. They’re happy with their beliefs, their beliefs work for them. And that’s a pity, because their beliefs are destructive and increasingly inhumane. That’s my belief, obviously, but I think it’s one supported by facts: abortion is wrong but you can cage Mexican children. The Jews control the government. Voter suppression is a reasonable response to higher turnout in urban centers. Chinese students shouldn’t be able to go to grad schools in the US. I could go on. At a certain point, just take the hit. I’m sorry, but one side has more moral politics than the other. I don’t see how this is a debate at this point, and I’m honestly frustrated that people like you keep asking us to have the debate. If anything, it’s the right that keeps crying that they’ve been deplatformed when they’re doing it to themselves by having horrific opinions. AND the right doesn’t even argue in good faith! Like they just make stuff up. For instance, about ANTIFA being behind the attempted coup on Wednesday. You want us to argue with that?

snowflake_ptr 6y ago
> the right > about ANTIFA being behind the attempted coup on Wednesday You want to provide a source for the claim that the entire republican party (or even a significant fraction of it) either (1) supports this claim in particular or (2) makes up these things on a regular basis, as opposed to a tiny (but extreme) faction, identical to the same distribution on the left? I've seen people on HN make claims that the Antifa violence during the 2020 riots was just a false-flag operation by the feds - so we know that there are people from the other political party who do exactly the same thing. Where's your evidence that there isn't more of them than people in the first party?
rangoon626 6y ago
Just wanna add that the left seems to believe what institutions and the legacy media tell them, at face value. Many on the right use critical thinking, however they seem to believe that numbers and “science” can be spun into any narrative the gatekeepers want (whoever they may be). Most of the schism really seems to be based on trust. Left trusts by default, the right does not. The left trusts that the government knows best, the right does not. The right believes in personal responsibility for running your life (not trusting it to any other party), the left does not, requiring collectivism and social programs.
- 8note 6y ago
  Nah, the right trusts everything the tv and radio hosts tell them. There's a difference in what and who to trust, but both trust a plenty
  - rangoon626 6y ago
    > Nah, the right trusts everything the tv and radio hosts tell them. I don't agree. The media, as a whole, leans left. Except for comparatively far fewer right leaning news outlets. I don't think I can name a single newspaper that doesn't have a left slant. LA Times, NY Times, WashPo are the giants, plus any of your local city newspapers. People on the right are not likely to trust any of those entities. For news stations there's CNN, NBC, ABC, which all lean left. For the right, there's Fox and a couple a low-key bum ones like OANN and NewsMax. Again, right leaning people are likely to view most of tv media sources as untrustworthy.
    - owowow 6y ago
      The media leans neoliberal, not left. You never see leftist leaders painted in a good light by CNN, ABC, NBC, WashPo, NY Times or LA Times, as those leaders threaten the continued consolidation of wealth by the upper class.
      - tannedNerd 6y ago
        Show me the hit pieces on AOC and the squad that weren’t op eds then?

snowflake_ptr 6y ago

> the right > about ANTIFA being behind the attempted coup on Wednesday You want to provide a source for the claim that the entire republican party (or even a significant fraction of it) either (1) supports this claim in particular or (2) makes up these things on a regular basis, as opposed to a tiny (but extreme) faction, identical to the same distribution on the left? I've seen people on HN make claims that the Antifa violence during the 2020 riots was just a false-flag operation by the feds - so we know that there are people from the other political party who do exactly the same thing. Where's your evidence that there isn't more of them than people in the first party?

rangoon626 6y ago

Just wanna add that the left seems to believe what institutions and the legacy media tell them, at face value. Many on the right use critical thinking, however they seem to believe that numbers and “science” can be spun into any narrative the gatekeepers want (whoever they may be). Most of the schism really seems to be based on trust. Left trusts by default, the right does not. The left trusts that the government knows best, the right does not. The right believes in personal responsibility for running your life (not trusting it to any other party), the left does not, requiring collectivism and social programs.

8note 6y ago
Nah, the right trusts everything the tv and radio hosts tell them. There's a difference in what and who to trust, but both trust a plenty
- rangoon626 6y ago
  > Nah, the right trusts everything the tv and radio hosts tell them. I don't agree. The media, as a whole, leans left. Except for comparatively far fewer right leaning news outlets. I don't think I can name a single newspaper that doesn't have a left slant. LA Times, NY Times, WashPo are the giants, plus any of your local city newspapers. People on the right are not likely to trust any of those entities. For news stations there's CNN, NBC, ABC, which all lean left. For the right, there's Fox and a couple a low-key bum ones like OANN and NewsMax. Again, right leaning people are likely to view most of tv media sources as untrustworthy.
  - owowow 6y ago
    The media leans neoliberal, not left. You never see leftist leaders painted in a good light by CNN, ABC, NBC, WashPo, NY Times or LA Times, as those leaders threaten the continued consolidation of wealth by the upper class.
    - tannedNerd 6y ago
      Show me the hit pieces on AOC and the squad that weren’t op eds then?