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I appreciate your honesty and I will attempt to explain, briefly, so you might understand better. 1. Most people on the right are against abortion for the reas

I appreciate your honesty and I will attempt to explain, briefly, so you might understand better. 1. Most people on the right are against abortion for the reason that it is against their particular religion, which declares it as murder and murder is wrong. But, the others don't care at all about a woman's right to choose, they just don't want their tax dollars paying for that choice instead of other things they want. It really is that simple. As far as the court goes, that is completely different. The saying goes "you can indict a ham sandwich ", and that is largely true. Courts all over the nation entertain frivolous actions on a daily basis, people love this (Judge Judy), but when cases are preliminary dismissed without the "day in court" faith in the court will be quickly lost by those who believed win or lose, it should have been heard. Each person reading this was raised in a time when they were taught every vote counts, your opinion matters, and to stand up for what you believe in while respecting the opinions of others. The opinion of one side is no longer even listened to, let alone respected. How many of you have ever genuinely tried to explain to someone with a different opinion why you disagree with them? I don't see that much anymore. Not everyone with a different opinion is set in their beliefs. Some may welcome your perspective and shift their viewpoint to yours. It's worth a try, right? Apparently not for most. Instead, the right is vilified, insulted, and they believe they are treated differently and unfairly from the left. Their voices are being systematically taken away through deplatforming. They are being stereotyped and lumped into a single category along with extremists. So, the logical conclusion is that if you isolate, disparage, and discourage someone enough, they will become you've now convinced them they are. Multiply that by 70 million. Instead, try talking to people with the goal of explaining your point of view and why you feel that way. It certainly can't hurt more than what's happening now.

all_factz 6y ago
But your own post makes clear the problem with your logic. This isn’t about convincing people. It’s about the fact that people’s political views are guided by gut, instinct and the bubbles they’re in instead of by critical thinking. These people believe abortion is killing an innocent baby. They don’t want their tax dollars spent on thing X. They believe the election was rigged — evidence doesn’t come into it. How do you change what people believe? I think we’ve tried rational debate. God knows I have. It’s frustrating to be told over and over, “well, if you just explained better...” when the people I’m trying to convince aren’t interested in learning. They’re happy with their beliefs, their beliefs work for them. And that’s a pity, because their beliefs are destructive and increasingly inhumane. That’s my belief, obviously, but I think it’s one supported by facts: abortion is wrong but you can cage Mexican children. The Jews control the government. Voter suppression is a reasonable response to higher turnout in urban centers. Chinese students shouldn’t be able to go to grad schools in the US. I could go on. At a certain point, just take the hit. I’m sorry, but one side has more moral politics than the other. I don’t see how this is a debate at this point, and I’m honestly frustrated that people like you keep asking us to have the debate. If anything, it’s the right that keeps crying that they’ve been deplatformed when they’re doing it to themselves by having horrific opinions. AND the right doesn’t even argue in good faith! Like they just make stuff up. For instance, about ANTIFA being behind the attempted coup on Wednesday. You want us to argue with that?
- snowflake_ptr 6y ago
  > the right > about ANTIFA being behind the attempted coup on Wednesday You want to provide a source for the claim that the entire republican party (or even a significant fraction of it) either (1) supports this claim in particular or (2) makes up these things on a regular basis, as opposed to a tiny (but extreme) faction, identical to the same distribution on the left? I've seen people on HN make claims that the Antifa violence during the 2020 riots was just a false-flag operation by the feds - so we know that there are people from the other political party who do exactly the same thing. Where's your evidence that there isn't more of them than people in the first party?
- rangoon626 6y ago
  Just wanna add that the left seems to believe what institutions and the legacy media tell them, at face value. Many on the right use critical thinking, however they seem to believe that numbers and “science” can be spun into any narrative the gatekeepers want (whoever they may be). Most of the schism really seems to be based on trust. Left trusts by default, the right does not. The left trusts that the government knows best, the right does not. The right believes in personal responsibility for running your life (not trusting it to any other party), the left does not, requiring collectivism and social programs.
  - 8note 6y ago
    Nah, the right trusts everything the tv and radio hosts tell them. There's a difference in what and who to trust, but both trust a plenty
    - rangoon626 6y ago
      > Nah, the right trusts everything the tv and radio hosts tell them. I don't agree. The media, as a whole, leans left. Except for comparatively far fewer right leaning news outlets. I don't think I can name a single newspaper that doesn't have a left slant. LA Times, NY Times, WashPo are the giants, plus any of your local city newspapers. People on the right are not likely to trust any of those entities. For news stations there's CNN, NBC, ABC, which all lean left. For the right, there's Fox and a couple a low-key bum ones like OANN and NewsMax. Again, right leaning people are likely to view most of tv media sources as untrustworthy.
dmcclurg 6y ago
All I see are people listening. Scores of legal professionals, attorneys, and judges have read through thousands of pages of serious arguments made by the right. Election officials have burned the midnight oil over and over again searching for issues after listening to complaints from the right. Journalists have spent countless hours chasing down people to listen to, only to find deception. After all of this listening, all we ever seem to find is deception. If the right doesn’t change their tune, then all the listeners can do is see them as a group he’ll bent on deception. You make your bed, and you sleep in it. Period.
jgwil2 6y ago
And yet if we look at it objectively, the right is clearly overrepresnted in our political system. Republicans lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential elections. In the next presidential election there will be many eligible voters who weren't even born last time they won. The Senate gives a seven point advantage to Republicans. So please, explain to me where you get this idea that the right is "treated unfairly," because it's getting very hard to see how this argument is being made in good faith.
- hindsightbias 6y ago
  7 of the last 8 elections. And yet they are the ones “out of touch”
  - jgwil2 6y ago
    Thanks for the correction!
- athms 6y ago
  Also, SCOTUS has had a conservative majority (except during a vacancy) since 1989.
  - jki275 6y ago
    The first time SCOTUS has had a conservative majority since the 50s was when Amy Barrett was confirmed last year. Maybe your definition of conservative is not the same as most conservatives, but that’s just how it is.
    - jgwil2 6y ago
      How about instead we say, "appointed by a Republican president," so we don't get bogged down in semantics? Since Heller, Citizens United, Bush v Gore etc were clearly the products of partisan Republican justices. Sorry to be blunt but this just goes to show how often your "feelings" diverge from objective reality.
    - 6y ago

all_factz 6y ago

But your own post makes clear the problem with your logic. This isn’t about convincing people. It’s about the fact that people’s political views are guided by gut, instinct and the bubbles they’re in instead of by critical thinking. These people believe abortion is killing an innocent baby. They don’t want their tax dollars spent on thing X. They believe the election was rigged — evidence doesn’t come into it. How do you change what people believe? I think we’ve tried rational debate. God knows I have. It’s frustrating to be told over and over, “well, if you just explained better...” when the people I’m trying to convince aren’t interested in learning. They’re happy with their beliefs, their beliefs work for them. And that’s a pity, because their beliefs are destructive and increasingly inhumane. That’s my belief, obviously, but I think it’s one supported by facts: abortion is wrong but you can cage Mexican children. The Jews control the government. Voter suppression is a reasonable response to higher turnout in urban centers. Chinese students shouldn’t be able to go to grad schools in the US. I could go on. At a certain point, just take the hit. I’m sorry, but one side has more moral politics than the other. I don’t see how this is a debate at this point, and I’m honestly frustrated that people like you keep asking us to have the debate. If anything, it’s the right that keeps crying that they’ve been deplatformed when they’re doing it to themselves by having horrific opinions. AND the right doesn’t even argue in good faith! Like they just make stuff up. For instance, about ANTIFA being behind the attempted coup on Wednesday. You want us to argue with that?

snowflake_ptr 6y ago
> the right > about ANTIFA being behind the attempted coup on Wednesday You want to provide a source for the claim that the entire republican party (or even a significant fraction of it) either (1) supports this claim in particular or (2) makes up these things on a regular basis, as opposed to a tiny (but extreme) faction, identical to the same distribution on the left? I've seen people on HN make claims that the Antifa violence during the 2020 riots was just a false-flag operation by the feds - so we know that there are people from the other political party who do exactly the same thing. Where's your evidence that there isn't more of them than people in the first party?
rangoon626 6y ago
Just wanna add that the left seems to believe what institutions and the legacy media tell them, at face value. Many on the right use critical thinking, however they seem to believe that numbers and “science” can be spun into any narrative the gatekeepers want (whoever they may be). Most of the schism really seems to be based on trust. Left trusts by default, the right does not. The left trusts that the government knows best, the right does not. The right believes in personal responsibility for running your life (not trusting it to any other party), the left does not, requiring collectivism and social programs.
- 8note 6y ago
  Nah, the right trusts everything the tv and radio hosts tell them. There's a difference in what and who to trust, but both trust a plenty
  - rangoon626 6y ago
    > Nah, the right trusts everything the tv and radio hosts tell them. I don't agree. The media, as a whole, leans left. Except for comparatively far fewer right leaning news outlets. I don't think I can name a single newspaper that doesn't have a left slant. LA Times, NY Times, WashPo are the giants, plus any of your local city newspapers. People on the right are not likely to trust any of those entities. For news stations there's CNN, NBC, ABC, which all lean left. For the right, there's Fox and a couple a low-key bum ones like OANN and NewsMax. Again, right leaning people are likely to view most of tv media sources as untrustworthy.

dmcclurg 6y ago

All I see are people listening. Scores of legal professionals, attorneys, and judges have read through thousands of pages of serious arguments made by the right. Election officials have burned the midnight oil over and over again searching for issues after listening to complaints from the right. Journalists have spent countless hours chasing down people to listen to, only to find deception. After all of this listening, all we ever seem to find is deception. If the right doesn’t change their tune, then all the listeners can do is see them as a group he’ll bent on deception. You make your bed, and you sleep in it. Period.

jgwil2 6y ago

And yet if we look at it objectively, the right is clearly overrepresnted in our political system. Republicans lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential elections. In the next presidential election there will be many eligible voters who weren't even born last time they won. The Senate gives a seven point advantage to Republicans. So please, explain to me where you get this idea that the right is "treated unfairly," because it's getting very hard to see how this argument is being made in good faith.

hindsightbias 6y ago
7 of the last 8 elections. And yet they are the ones “out of touch”
- jgwil2 6y ago
  Thanks for the correction!
athms 6y ago
Also, SCOTUS has had a conservative majority (except during a vacancy) since 1989.
- jki275 6y ago
  The first time SCOTUS has had a conservative majority since the 50s was when Amy Barrett was confirmed last year. Maybe your definition of conservative is not the same as most conservatives, but that’s just how it is.
  - jgwil2 6y ago
    How about instead we say, "appointed by a Republican president," so we don't get bogged down in semantics? Since Heller, Citizens United, Bush v Gore etc were clearly the products of partisan Republican justices. Sorry to be blunt but this just goes to show how often your "feelings" diverge from objective reality.
  - 6y ago