7 ms·

FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

106 points by wglb 6y ago

ddevault 6y ago
No taking responsibility for it, no promise to investigate the failure and prevent the like in the future, and an obvious lie: “The FBI was prepared,” the official said. Nice.
logicslave 6y ago
Theres a video of the police letting the protesters into the capitol. They opened the door and are standing to the side EDIT: I urge people to go watch the video. My opinion is that many walking in thought it was a protest and was just something the group was doing.
- Karupan 6y ago
  If true, looks like they thought “stand back and stand by” was meant for them.
- avs733 6y ago
  Which at that point was probably the correct decision. What’s the other option? Get overwhelmed by the crowd or attacked from behind?
  - vkou 6y ago
    Gas, less-lethal bullets, flashbangs. The stuff I've been seeing a few blocks away for most of the summer. All of those things are really good at dispersing crowds.
    - avs733 6y ago
      1:100 doesn’t make escalation a wise decision
    - stagger87 6y ago
      Gas, flashbangs, and guns were used at the Capital on the 6th.
    - skyyler 6y ago
      That's the most upsetting thing about this situation, in my opinion. Police in DC haven't had issues deploying such tactics in the past. Why was this different?
      - dylan604 6y ago
        The instances you are referring to from the past were from police units that were fully prepared for riot combat. From what they were wearing and what weapons they were carrrying. They were also fully briefed on being placed into a riot situation. For the Capitol Police, it was just another Wednesday. There was no advanced prep for them to outfitted with riot gear/weapons. This is why it is so important to investigate the decision making process by leadership on why it was not something more than just another Wednesday.
    - mlyle 6y ago
      Plenty of gas was used, and so were other less lethal weapons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s
  - jonlucc 6y ago
    I don't know, but the way they casually let them in doesn't look like they're retreating from the position. If they were, why open the barriers? Why wouldn't they just back up from the position to their fallback position as one group?
- grapehut 6y ago
  I thought it was odd how it seemed like the majority of the people were walking as if they were going on a tour of the capitol and not like they were a violent mob. It'll be interesting to see what more comes out of the wtf bad capitol security.
  - Pils 6y ago
    This is speculation, but apparently there were protesters on both the civilian entrance side as well as the promenade (where you saw the protesters scaling walls). When the protesters breached the promenade entrance, I assume there was some sort of stand down orders for the police at the civilian entrance, presumably so that the officers wouldn't get pinched. Hence the weird dual screen of protesters breaking through windows/protesters staying within the cordons. They weren't part of the same cohort.
  - logicslave 6y ago
    This was also my reaction. I think many viewed it that way, like it was an expected part of them being there
- mimikatz 6y ago
  There is also video of them shooting and killing people trying to enter the capital and video of them actively pushing back and being overwhelmed. Much more than one out of context clip.
  - logicslave 6y ago
    True, but I think that one was protecting the inner rooms, close to where pence was
    - mlyle 6y ago
      There's plenty of fighting over barricades outside. I can't find the video of the first, outer cordon falling anymore, but this is the second, inner cordon falling at the beginning of this clip, followed by attempts to stop the protesters on the steps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s Then there was desperate fighting over doorways inside the capitol building.
  - wwright 6y ago
    The capitol police definitely don’t seem to have been acting as one unit in this. At least some were trying to protect the capitol.
- whoisburbansky 6y ago
  All the comments talking about how the Capitol Police didn’t have any choice but to let the protestors in, the bigger question is why weren’t they reinforced with National Guardsmen, who were apparently ready and prepared for exactly this situation ahead of time. Linked article from four days ago. [1] 1. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/dc-national-guard-activated-ahead-protests/story https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/dc-national-guard-activa...
  - markdown 6y ago
    The Mayor didn't foresee that it would be this bad, and didn't want an escalation. She declined help from the National Guard. So the cops were stretched thin, and some "fought" bravely to defend the Capitol, while others were sympathetic to the rioters and let them in, as can be seen clearly in multiple videos.
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      The mayor doesn't control the Capitol Police.
      - markdown 6y ago
        Did someone here say she did?
        pseudalopex 6y ago
        They asked why the Capitol Police weren't reinforced by the National Guard. You replied the mayor declined help from the National Guard.
    - mlyle 6y ago
      But what about that day? Maryland Governor Larry Hogan (R): "I was actually on the phone with Leader Hoyer who was pleading with us to send the guard," Hogan said, The Post reported. "He was yelling across the room to Schumer and they were back and forth saying we do have the authorization and I'm saying, 'I'm telling you we do not have the authorization.'" As rioters smashed windows and forced lawmakers into hiding, the head of the Maryland National Guard was told he could not come to the aid of US Capitol police, per Hogan. Ninety minutes later, according to Hogan, the secretary of the Army, Ryan McCarthy, called him to request the deployment. Typically such calls come from the US Secretary of Defense. It was not the only apparent breach in the chain of command on Wednesday. The order to deploy the National Guard came not from the commander in chief, President Donald Trump, but rather Vice President Mike Pence, according to The New York Times. https://www.businessinsider.com/maryland-governor-repeatedly-tried-to-deploy-national-guard-in-dc-2021-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/maryland-governor-repeatedly...
- mlyle 6y ago
  It's dubious. That wasn't the position that was overrun, and there were protesters both behind and in front of the police. That position likely needed to be abandoned, because being pressed upon on two sides is no bueno. The bigger question is whether there was any deliberate decision to withhold necessary force --- in particular, whether the executive had any influence on the lack of Guard support or other measures not being taken. A subsidiary question is whether there were any cops that were deliberately facilitating this. When so far outnumbered, 5-10 rogue police officers could make a huge difference in outcomes.
- cdsx 6y ago
  I agree, and I also urge people to watch this footage. It can be found here[1] (it is also featured for a few seconds in the other videos [2-4]). There are two takes on this by comedian's here[2] and here[3], which I personally thought were intriguing (and funny). There is also a comprehensive (serious) take here[4] showing a bunch of extra footage I hadn't seen yet. If anyone watches these takes and disagrees with them, I would love to hear how specifically you don't agree? Especially: how can it be explained the omissions shown in [4] that the media are making, e.g. not showing the several incidences where the masses of Trump supporters were actively stopping the violent provocateurs (protecting police, stopping them from smashing a window, etc)? I am genuinely curious. [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/sugaspov/status/1346919943238000645 https://mobile.twitter.com/sugaspov/status/13469199432380006... [2] https://www.bitchute.com/video/bZCHyUgTc0o/ https://www.bitchute.com/video/bZCHyUgTc0o/ [3] https://youtu.be/xH9XWNz0GW4?t=219 https://youtu.be/xH9XWNz0GW4?t=219 [4] https://youtu.be/BwSxVvRFMJA https://youtu.be/BwSxVvRFMJA
  - neogodless 6y ago
    This video is likely being misinterpreted. It doesn't really make any sense because there are masses of plain clothes citizens on this side of the barricade before it is opened, including the guy who steps forward and gestures for everyone to "come on over." The police and barricade where they were had already lost the line by this time. The zooming at the beginning makes it hard to see exactly who is lifting and moving the barricades, though. Perhaps frame by frame it could be better analyzed. Considering [4] Rudy "trial by combat" Giuliani, I'm going to take a pass at using that as a news source. Allowing him to shape your message is probably not ideal! Here's an analysis of the footage: https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jan/07/ask-politifact-did-capitol-police-let-mob-trump-su/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jan/07/ask-politifac...
  - mlyle 6y ago
    So all the people who were framegrabbed and getting arrested were not Trump supporters, but antifa? All the people physically confronting the police here a small minority of agent provocateurs? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s Pretty ridiculous take, bro.
whoisburbansky 6y ago
The article is a little light on details, but I can’t help wondering why, especially given the massive amounts of resources and funding going into surveillance and intelligence gathering post 9/11.
- whymauri 6y ago
  that's why it's called security theater
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    Yup! We've wasted trillions and eroded civil libertries for basically no upside. Please, let it sink in.
    - kmbfjr 6y ago
      Exactly. Meanwhile, the militias in Michigan who view Terry Nichols as a martyr, continue weekend training in the national forests of Michigan.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- wwright 6y ago
  Because after 9/11 we spent twenty years pretending that brown men are the perpetrators of mass violence in this country
- dylan604 6y ago
  After OKC bombing, the Eye of Sauron turned to the militias as the world witnessed what happens when they are left unchecked. Then, 9/11 happened, and the Eye of Sauron turned away from domestic terrorism. Unfortunately, Sauron can only look in one place at a time, and is apparently unable to scan and must stare at one thing at a time.
  - disgrunt 6y ago
systemvoltage 6y ago
> Over the past 12 months, the Anti-Defamation League sent 1,000 tips to law enforcement based on tracking of social-media comments made by U.S. extremists groups leading up to Wednesday’s riot, and noted the increasing ratcheting up of violent rhetoric. The FBI didn't immediately respond to a request for comment. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/biden-trump-electoral-college-certification-congress/card/x1dwwPqnJM1XfQh5LaUj https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/biden-trump-electoral-colle...
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  Tangential question: what does “immediately respond” mean? “We asked and didn’t get an answer in 5 minutes”? I’ve seen this on many news sites and it’s never clear what timeframe “immediately” refers to.
  - Quinner 6y ago
    The question was asked and they didn't respond before the article was published, a timespan which in this case is likely a few hours.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    I guess it's like any timing side-channel. Saying no takes a few minutes, thinking about and saying no takes longer, putting it through a lawyer takes a lot longer than that
avs733 6y ago
Let’s be blunt... because white people. This is the same thing that happened in Charlottesville and the after action review of Charlottesville made that clear. No one listened. The need here isn’t more police or more training or more gear. Any of those things would just be used to harm people of color and low income communities. What needs to happen is people stop being taken in by bad faith arguments about “free speech” and “both sides” and take the threat of white supremacist violence seriously. It is the most frequent type of terrorism in this country.
- jimbob45 6y ago
  This is the red scare all over again. “White” people are being targeted and now it’s even okay to remove their freedom of speech because someone has the moral high ground? Would anyone be surprised by a neo-HUAC comprised of Dorsey, Zuck, and Pichai? I’m beginning to think you all want that. I fear for the man who can’t see this as the slippery slope it is. From my point of view, BLM has bad faith arguments and should be targeted. Perhaps a more neutral strategy should be used?
- logicslave 6y ago
  Did you see the riots this summer? Probably over 20 police were shot.
  - wwright 6y ago
    Given that there were literally millions of protestors on the streets over the summer, 20 is a pretty tiny number. Multiple people have already died from the DC attacks, just in two days in one city, with a much smaller number of people. That’s just comparing the number of deaths, and putting aside that one was a massive distributed protest of government brutality and the other was an attempted coup.
    - logicslave 6y ago
      you are brainwashed
    - pure_tribe 6y ago
throw7 6y ago
"At the DHS unit, called Intelligence and Analysis, management didn’t view the demonstrations as posing a significant threat" DHS, under the executive, led by an unlawful director.
whymauri 6y ago
So you're telling me there was more thoughtfulness in the risk assessment for the Area 51 Alien Raid meme from 2019 [0], than real threats on the U.S. Capitol? Fascinating. The FBI was knocking on people's door for that joke. [1] [0] https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/07/15/air-force-warns-against-area-51-assault-plans-alien-memes-swamp-internet.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/07/15/air-force-war... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49667295 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49667295
- grapehut 6y ago
  There's no way that they didn't purposely allow the capitol be breached. I don't think it's clear at this point to decide who made the call and why, but when the capitol has worse security than Mark McCloskey's house ... you know it wasn't an accident.
chiefalchemist 6y ago
How convenient. They didn't do their jobs. The DC police didn't do their job. A possible pivotal moment and...nothing? But this is simply coincidence? Some of the "best & brightest" all simultaneously go brain dead? I'm no fan of Trump. But as such facts continue to align my distate for him is overshadowed by my fear of nefarious actors and other suspect agendas.
- dmode 6y ago
  The nefarious actor is Trump and his cronies who most likely directed Federal agencies not to act. He already paused the National Guard deployment
  - guscost 6y ago
    There's more going on than appears to be the case from either of these (PR submarine) stories: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-help-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380 https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel...
  - disgrunt 6y ago
    That really worked out well for him.
  - chiefalchemist 6y ago
    Nah. He likely did not. Instead others played to that expectation, knew they could craft a "riot" and then drive a stake into the Trump legacy. It will be a long long long time before the public votes for a candidate who is not a life long 100% legitimate Red or Blue. This is the final lesson to the masses: Don't you ever deviate again.
    - dmode 6y ago
      I don’t understand your point. Trump and right wing media had organized the Jan 6th event. Nobody needed to do anything. Trump and his cronies are solely responsible for what happened
- 6y ago
A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
I can't help but wonder. Anyone watching the political scene over the past years knew a tipping point is very much at hand. It just was not clear whether it will be BLM, Antifa, Bogaloos, or Trump disciples. The fact that something this big was ignored suggests that it was from beginning seen as not a threat ( Trump being known for 'big talk, no action' ). Alternatively, if one is inclined to think along darker lines, this was allowed to happen for whatever reason.
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  Your both sides equivocation ignore the fact that only causes cops support are given this treatment.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    You may have put words in my mouth. Since you did, allow me to respond: It is possible. Cops are human too after all. They have their sympathies and whatnot. Note, that the same appears to be true with regards to media and tech. Some groups get special treatment. Some don't. I am not ignoring it, but I would love if the standard was applied across the board and not just when it fits an argument.
- rvz 6y ago
  > The fact that something this big was ignored suggests that it was from beginning seen as not a threat ( Trump being known for 'big talk, no action' ). Alternatively, if one is inclined to think along darker lines, this was allowed to happen for whatever reason. However, It's easy to say this in hindsight now as before he was seen as a 'joke' for running for the presidency in 2016. But as time went on Trump was becoming known for translating most of his words into action, from protests to policy. That's when 'they' knew he had to be 'removed' by all means necessary.
rsynnott 6y ago
> The FBI was prepared Bloody hell, I'd hate to see what happens when they're _not_ prepared, then.
chrissnell 6y ago
A police officer friend with 20 years of crowd control experience told me that the preparations looked criminally negligent. I believe that this was done on purpose with full knowledge that these events were likely to occur. If crowd control and security are your job, there are only two explanations: you are horrible at your job, or, you did this on purpose with bad intentions.
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  Yes! The police are overrun with right wingers. With competent policing, this would have been just an ordinary protest. Everyone needs to ignore the mob and look at the cops. That's where the story is.
  - mistermann 6y ago
    The right wing racist meme is one possible explanation, but not the only one. I say let's see if any journalists have any curiosity and do some investigation, or if we instead just get a coordinated full court press of the right wing racist narrative.
    - Ericson2314 6y ago
      Right now the full court press, if any, is the centrists agape at trumpists and bemoaning the collapse of norms. I see a lot of "gross hoi polloi" vs "those decent bipartisans who will restore the good old times". That's not investigating the cops either. That's self-serving uncritical thinking looking at the outcome and ignoring what we know about the inputs.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    I think that's basically true of the all the triple letters too - partly why the idea that the FBI investigating the trump's being a liberal stitch-up is so vacuous.
  - disgrunt 6y ago
    Let's go with that theory. Did these right wing cops help the right wing cause by allowing this incident to get out of hand?
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
chris11 6y ago
What's also disturbing is that the Pentagon severely limited the DC National Guard days before the protests. Allowing things like surveillance and air assets wouldn't have caused any issues if the protests really were peaceful. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-prote...
admiralspoo 6y ago
The DC mayor didn't want any federal assistance https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/06/dc-mayor-told-federal-law-enforcement-to-stand-down-day-before-violent-us-capitol-riot/ https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/06/dc-mayor-told-federal-l...
- guscost 6y ago
  AP source will get fewer downvotes: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-help-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380 https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel...
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    Capitol Police are federal, not DC police
- dylan604 6y ago
  Wonder if this will effect re-electability
- amanaplanacanal 6y ago
  I’m confused about this and hope others can explain. My understanding is that the capital is not the jurisdiction of DC police but rather the Capitol police which is under the control of Congress. Am I misinformed about that?
  - neogodless 6y ago
    No, you are correct. But the Capitol is in DC, and crowds outside the Capitol are in DC. I'd have to see a map to be certain, but I would imagine for any large gathering, sufficient forces may be needed the Capitol and in surrounding areas. To your point, though: > D.C. Metropolitan Police Department would be the lead agency and would coordinate with the Capitol Police, the U.S. Park Police and the U.S. Secret Service. It appears the Mayor had been requesting assistance from federal agencies in the week leading up to ceremony, but declined additional assistance greater than a force of 340[0], likely to avoid having images like this one[1] giving the impression of military being involved in the election process. [0]https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/07/954349992/where-was-the-security-when-a-mob-stormed-the-capitol https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tall... [1]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErEvfgnXAAA2kEc.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErEvfgnXAAA2kEc.jpg
jonnyone 6y ago
That was the strangest aspect of Wednesday to me. They knew there was going to be a huge rally that day. Surely that alone would warrant beefed up security. And the idea that it was just because "they're white people" doesn't add up - even if that were their logic, it was a pro-Trump rally, wouldn't they expect counter-protesters? Weren't there weeks of Proud Boy/Antifa scuffles and violence directly preceding this? The same FBI who caught the Whitmer plotters didn't sniff out any of the multiple reports of premeditation regarding the capitol? Is it incompetence?
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  They are white people and the cops support their cause. The cops are racist, but they also wouldn't be this friendly had a white leftist protest escalated.
  - PHGamer 6y ago
    oh please. plenty of cops bent the knee for the BLM protests and stood by as stuff happened. some cops want to crack heads, some cops think attacking the mob will make things worse.
    - Ericson2314 6y ago
      You know the bolling pin machine? the one that picks up the down pins and sweeps the the rest? Go pick up your good apples and then sweep out the rest. To continue with the analogies, when the task is cleaning a mess like the Augean stables, the usual methods won't do.
guscost 6y ago
But the police also rejected offers of federal help: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-help-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380 https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel... Propaganda war to escape the blame, DC municipality against feds? Something else?
- jcranmer 6y ago
  The US Capitol Police is a federal agency. The Park Police is another federal police force that has concurrent jurisdiction over the area. DC's police is the Metropolitan Police of DC, which has oversight by the DC municipal authority instead of direct federal authority.
  - guscost 6y ago
    Ah, feds against feds. Totally plausible!
  - Animats 6y ago
    No, the Capitol Police work for Congress, not the Executive Branch. They are not under Trump at all. The Park Police, the FBI, Homeland Security cops, and the military all ultimately report to the President. The District of Columbia has a strange arrangement with its own elected officials and police, but not as much independence as a US state. This matters during a coup attempt. Note that when the Capitol Police did get backup, it was from the DC police and the Virginia State Troopers. Neither was under Trump's control.
- notabee 6y ago
  Capitol police != DC Metro police.
- Animats 6y ago
  Tough call. Which side would Federal help, which reports to Trump, been on? The Capitol Police work for Congress, not the Executive Branch, by the way. There were a number of other possible bad outcomes. One was a huge Federal presence of armed troops in the House chamber during the vote. Trump was trying desperately to influence or delay the vote.[1] Having armed soldiers in body armor standing over Congress would have emboldened his people to stall or interfere. Anyway, that's just speculation now. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/mike-lee-tommy-tuberville-trump-misdialed-capitol-riot/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/mike-lee-tommy-tuber...
threwaway4392 6y ago
The Pentagon, through a political appointee appointed after Nov 3, blocking neighboring states over sending the national guard towards the capitol during the riots [1]. (edited for better wording)
threesmegiste 6y ago
İts not about protecting them. İts about make them seem dangerous. Result trump will go away. So basic.

106 points by wglb 6y ago

No taking responsibility for it, no promise to investigate the failure and prevent the like in the future, and an obvious lie: “The FBI was prepared,” the official said. Nice.

logicslave 6y ago

Theres a video of the police letting the protesters into the capitol. They opened the door and are standing to the side EDIT: I urge people to go watch the video. My opinion is that many walking in thought it was a protest and was just something the group was doing.

Karupan 6y ago
If true, looks like they thought “stand back and stand by” was meant for them.
avs733 6y ago
Which at that point was probably the correct decision. What’s the other option? Get overwhelmed by the crowd or attacked from behind?
- vkou 6y ago
  Gas, less-lethal bullets, flashbangs. The stuff I've been seeing a few blocks away for most of the summer. All of those things are really good at dispersing crowds.
  - avs733 6y ago
    1:100 doesn’t make escalation a wise decision
  - stagger87 6y ago
    Gas, flashbangs, and guns were used at the Capital on the 6th.
  - skyyler 6y ago
    That's the most upsetting thing about this situation, in my opinion. Police in DC haven't had issues deploying such tactics in the past. Why was this different?
    - dylan604 6y ago
      The instances you are referring to from the past were from police units that were fully prepared for riot combat. From what they were wearing and what weapons they were carrrying. They were also fully briefed on being placed into a riot situation. For the Capitol Police, it was just another Wednesday. There was no advanced prep for them to outfitted with riot gear/weapons. This is why it is so important to investigate the decision making process by leadership on why it was not something more than just another Wednesday.
  - mlyle 6y ago
    Plenty of gas was used, and so were other less lethal weapons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s
- jonlucc 6y ago
  I don't know, but the way they casually let them in doesn't look like they're retreating from the position. If they were, why open the barriers? Why wouldn't they just back up from the position to their fallback position as one group?
grapehut 6y ago
I thought it was odd how it seemed like the majority of the people were walking as if they were going on a tour of the capitol and not like they were a violent mob. It'll be interesting to see what more comes out of the wtf bad capitol security.
- Pils 6y ago
  This is speculation, but apparently there were protesters on both the civilian entrance side as well as the promenade (where you saw the protesters scaling walls). When the protesters breached the promenade entrance, I assume there was some sort of stand down orders for the police at the civilian entrance, presumably so that the officers wouldn't get pinched. Hence the weird dual screen of protesters breaking through windows/protesters staying within the cordons. They weren't part of the same cohort.
- logicslave 6y ago
  This was also my reaction. I think many viewed it that way, like it was an expected part of them being there
mimikatz 6y ago
There is also video of them shooting and killing people trying to enter the capital and video of them actively pushing back and being overwhelmed. Much more than one out of context clip.
- logicslave 6y ago
  True, but I think that one was protecting the inner rooms, close to where pence was
  - mlyle 6y ago
    There's plenty of fighting over barricades outside. I can't find the video of the first, outer cordon falling anymore, but this is the second, inner cordon falling at the beginning of this clip, followed by attempts to stop the protesters on the steps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s Then there was desperate fighting over doorways inside the capitol building.
- wwright 6y ago
  The capitol police definitely don’t seem to have been acting as one unit in this. At least some were trying to protect the capitol.
whoisburbansky 6y ago
All the comments talking about how the Capitol Police didn’t have any choice but to let the protestors in, the bigger question is why weren’t they reinforced with National Guardsmen, who were apparently ready and prepared for exactly this situation ahead of time. Linked article from four days ago. [1] 1. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/dc-national-guard-activated-ahead-protests/story https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/dc-national-guard-activa...
- markdown 6y ago
  The Mayor didn't foresee that it would be this bad, and didn't want an escalation. She declined help from the National Guard. So the cops were stretched thin, and some "fought" bravely to defend the Capitol, while others were sympathetic to the rioters and let them in, as can be seen clearly in multiple videos.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    The mayor doesn't control the Capitol Police.
    - markdown 6y ago
      Did someone here say she did?
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        They asked why the Capitol Police weren't reinforced by the National Guard. You replied the mayor declined help from the National Guard.
  - mlyle 6y ago
    But what about that day? Maryland Governor Larry Hogan (R): "I was actually on the phone with Leader Hoyer who was pleading with us to send the guard," Hogan said, The Post reported. "He was yelling across the room to Schumer and they were back and forth saying we do have the authorization and I'm saying, 'I'm telling you we do not have the authorization.'" As rioters smashed windows and forced lawmakers into hiding, the head of the Maryland National Guard was told he could not come to the aid of US Capitol police, per Hogan. Ninety minutes later, according to Hogan, the secretary of the Army, Ryan McCarthy, called him to request the deployment. Typically such calls come from the US Secretary of Defense. It was not the only apparent breach in the chain of command on Wednesday. The order to deploy the National Guard came not from the commander in chief, President Donald Trump, but rather Vice President Mike Pence, according to The New York Times. https://www.businessinsider.com/maryland-governor-repeatedly-tried-to-deploy-national-guard-in-dc-2021-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/maryland-governor-repeatedly...
mlyle 6y ago
It's dubious. That wasn't the position that was overrun, and there were protesters both behind and in front of the police. That position likely needed to be abandoned, because being pressed upon on two sides is no bueno. The bigger question is whether there was any deliberate decision to withhold necessary force --- in particular, whether the executive had any influence on the lack of Guard support or other measures not being taken. A subsidiary question is whether there were any cops that were deliberately facilitating this. When so far outnumbered, 5-10 rogue police officers could make a huge difference in outcomes.
cdsx 6y ago
I agree, and I also urge people to watch this footage. It can be found here[1] (it is also featured for a few seconds in the other videos [2-4]). There are two takes on this by comedian's here[2] and here[3], which I personally thought were intriguing (and funny). There is also a comprehensive (serious) take here[4] showing a bunch of extra footage I hadn't seen yet. If anyone watches these takes and disagrees with them, I would love to hear how specifically you don't agree? Especially: how can it be explained the omissions shown in [4] that the media are making, e.g. not showing the several incidences where the masses of Trump supporters were actively stopping the violent provocateurs (protecting police, stopping them from smashing a window, etc)? I am genuinely curious. [1] https://mobile.twitter.com/sugaspov/status/1346919943238000645 https://mobile.twitter.com/sugaspov/status/13469199432380006... [2] https://www.bitchute.com/video/bZCHyUgTc0o/ https://www.bitchute.com/video/bZCHyUgTc0o/ [3] https://youtu.be/xH9XWNz0GW4?t=219 https://youtu.be/xH9XWNz0GW4?t=219 [4] https://youtu.be/BwSxVvRFMJA https://youtu.be/BwSxVvRFMJA
- neogodless 6y ago
  This video is likely being misinterpreted. It doesn't really make any sense because there are masses of plain clothes citizens on this side of the barricade before it is opened, including the guy who steps forward and gestures for everyone to "come on over." The police and barricade where they were had already lost the line by this time. The zooming at the beginning makes it hard to see exactly who is lifting and moving the barricades, though. Perhaps frame by frame it could be better analyzed. Considering [4] Rudy "trial by combat" Giuliani, I'm going to take a pass at using that as a news source. Allowing him to shape your message is probably not ideal! Here's an analysis of the footage: https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jan/07/ask-politifact-did-capitol-police-let-mob-trump-su/ https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/jan/07/ask-politifac...
- mlyle 6y ago
  So all the people who were framegrabbed and getting arrested were not Trump supporters, but antifa? All the people physically confronting the police here a small minority of agent provocateurs? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PCHra6JuuQ&t=3s Pretty ridiculous take, bro.

whoisburbansky 6y ago

The article is a little light on details, but I can’t help wondering why, especially given the massive amounts of resources and funding going into surveillance and intelligence gathering post 9/11.

whymauri 6y ago
that's why it's called security theater
- Ericson2314 6y ago
  Yup! We've wasted trillions and eroded civil libertries for basically no upside. Please, let it sink in.
  - kmbfjr 6y ago
    Exactly. Meanwhile, the militias in Michigan who view Terry Nichols as a martyr, continue weekend training in the national forests of Michigan.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
wwright 6y ago
Because after 9/11 we spent twenty years pretending that brown men are the perpetrators of mass violence in this country
dylan604 6y ago
After OKC bombing, the Eye of Sauron turned to the militias as the world witnessed what happens when they are left unchecked. Then, 9/11 happened, and the Eye of Sauron turned away from domestic terrorism. Unfortunately, Sauron can only look in one place at a time, and is apparently unable to scan and must stare at one thing at a time.
- disgrunt 6y ago

systemvoltage 6y ago

> Over the past 12 months, the Anti-Defamation League sent 1,000 tips to law enforcement based on tracking of social-media comments made by U.S. extremists groups leading up to Wednesday’s riot, and noted the increasing ratcheting up of violent rhetoric. The FBI didn't immediately respond to a request for comment. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/biden-trump-electoral-college-certification-congress/card/x1dwwPqnJM1XfQh5LaUj https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/biden-trump-electoral-colle...

colejohnson66 6y ago
Tangential question: what does “immediately respond” mean? “We asked and didn’t get an answer in 5 minutes”? I’ve seen this on many news sites and it’s never clear what timeframe “immediately” refers to.
- Quinner 6y ago
  The question was asked and they didn't respond before the article was published, a timespan which in this case is likely a few hours.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mhh__ 6y ago
  I guess it's like any timing side-channel. Saying no takes a few minutes, thinking about and saying no takes longer, putting it through a lawyer takes a lot longer than that

avs733 6y ago

Let’s be blunt... because white people. This is the same thing that happened in Charlottesville and the after action review of Charlottesville made that clear. No one listened. The need here isn’t more police or more training or more gear. Any of those things would just be used to harm people of color and low income communities. What needs to happen is people stop being taken in by bad faith arguments about “free speech” and “both sides” and take the threat of white supremacist violence seriously. It is the most frequent type of terrorism in this country.

jimbob45 6y ago
This is the red scare all over again. “White” people are being targeted and now it’s even okay to remove their freedom of speech because someone has the moral high ground? Would anyone be surprised by a neo-HUAC comprised of Dorsey, Zuck, and Pichai? I’m beginning to think you all want that. I fear for the man who can’t see this as the slippery slope it is. From my point of view, BLM has bad faith arguments and should be targeted. Perhaps a more neutral strategy should be used?
logicslave 6y ago
Did you see the riots this summer? Probably over 20 police were shot.
- wwright 6y ago
  Given that there were literally millions of protestors on the streets over the summer, 20 is a pretty tiny number. Multiple people have already died from the DC attacks, just in two days in one city, with a much smaller number of people. That’s just comparing the number of deaths, and putting aside that one was a massive distributed protest of government brutality and the other was an attempted coup.
  - logicslave 6y ago
    you are brainwashed
  - pure_tribe 6y ago

throw7 6y ago

"At the DHS unit, called Intelligence and Analysis, management didn’t view the demonstrations as posing a significant threat" DHS, under the executive, led by an unlawful director.

whymauri 6y ago

So you're telling me there was more thoughtfulness in the risk assessment for the Area 51 Alien Raid meme from 2019 [0], than real threats on the U.S. Capitol? Fascinating. The FBI was knocking on people's door for that joke. [1] [0] https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/07/15/air-force-warns-against-area-51-assault-plans-alien-memes-swamp-internet.html https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/07/15/air-force-war... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49667295 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49667295

grapehut 6y ago
There's no way that they didn't purposely allow the capitol be breached. I don't think it's clear at this point to decide who made the call and why, but when the capitol has worse security than Mark McCloskey's house ... you know it wasn't an accident.

chiefalchemist 6y ago

How convenient. They didn't do their jobs. The DC police didn't do their job. A possible pivotal moment and...nothing? But this is simply coincidence? Some of the "best & brightest" all simultaneously go brain dead? I'm no fan of Trump. But as such facts continue to align my distate for him is overshadowed by my fear of nefarious actors and other suspect agendas.

dmode 6y ago
The nefarious actor is Trump and his cronies who most likely directed Federal agencies not to act. He already paused the National Guard deployment
- guscost 6y ago
  There's more going on than appears to be the case from either of these (PR submarine) stories: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-help-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380 https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel...
- disgrunt 6y ago
  That really worked out well for him.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  Nah. He likely did not. Instead others played to that expectation, knew they could craft a "riot" and then drive a stake into the Trump legacy. It will be a long long long time before the public votes for a candidate who is not a life long 100% legitimate Red or Blue. This is the final lesson to the masses: Don't you ever deviate again.
  - dmode 6y ago
    I don’t understand your point. Trump and right wing media had organized the Jan 6th event. Nobody needed to do anything. Trump and his cronies are solely responsible for what happened
6y ago

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago

I can't help but wonder. Anyone watching the political scene over the past years knew a tipping point is very much at hand. It just was not clear whether it will be BLM, Antifa, Bogaloos, or Trump disciples. The fact that something this big was ignored suggests that it was from beginning seen as not a threat ( Trump being known for 'big talk, no action' ). Alternatively, if one is inclined to think along darker lines, this was allowed to happen for whatever reason.

Ericson2314 6y ago
Your both sides equivocation ignore the fact that only causes cops support are given this treatment.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  You may have put words in my mouth. Since you did, allow me to respond: It is possible. Cops are human too after all. They have their sympathies and whatnot. Note, that the same appears to be true with regards to media and tech. Some groups get special treatment. Some don't. I am not ignoring it, but I would love if the standard was applied across the board and not just when it fits an argument.
rvz 6y ago
> The fact that something this big was ignored suggests that it was from beginning seen as not a threat ( Trump being known for 'big talk, no action' ). Alternatively, if one is inclined to think along darker lines, this was allowed to happen for whatever reason. However, It's easy to say this in hindsight now as before he was seen as a 'joke' for running for the presidency in 2016. But as time went on Trump was becoming known for translating most of his words into action, from protests to policy. That's when 'they' knew he had to be 'removed' by all means necessary.

rsynnott 6y ago

> The FBI was prepared Bloody hell, I'd hate to see what happens when they're _not_ prepared, then.

chrissnell 6y ago

A police officer friend with 20 years of crowd control experience told me that the preparations looked criminally negligent. I believe that this was done on purpose with full knowledge that these events were likely to occur. If crowd control and security are your job, there are only two explanations: you are horrible at your job, or, you did this on purpose with bad intentions.

Ericson2314 6y ago
Yes! The police are overrun with right wingers. With competent policing, this would have been just an ordinary protest. Everyone needs to ignore the mob and look at the cops. That's where the story is.
- mistermann 6y ago
  The right wing racist meme is one possible explanation, but not the only one. I say let's see if any journalists have any curiosity and do some investigation, or if we instead just get a coordinated full court press of the right wing racist narrative.
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    Right now the full court press, if any, is the centrists agape at trumpists and bemoaning the collapse of norms. I see a lot of "gross hoi polloi" vs "those decent bipartisans who will restore the good old times". That's not investigating the cops either. That's self-serving uncritical thinking looking at the outcome and ignoring what we know about the inputs.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  I think that's basically true of the all the triple letters too - partly why the idea that the FBI investigating the trump's being a liberal stitch-up is so vacuous.
- disgrunt 6y ago
  Let's go with that theory. Did these right wing cops help the right wing cause by allowing this incident to get out of hand?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

chris11 6y ago

What's also disturbing is that the Pentagon severely limited the DC National Guard days before the protests. Allowing things like surveillance and air assets wouldn't have caused any issues if the protests really were peaceful. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-prote...

admiralspoo 6y ago

The DC mayor didn't want any federal assistance https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/06/dc-mayor-told-federal-law-enforcement-to-stand-down-day-before-violent-us-capitol-riot/ https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/06/dc-mayor-told-federal-l...

guscost 6y ago
AP source will get fewer downvotes: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-help-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380 https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel...
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  Capitol Police are federal, not DC police
dylan604 6y ago
Wonder if this will effect re-electability
amanaplanacanal 6y ago
I’m confused about this and hope others can explain. My understanding is that the capital is not the jurisdiction of DC police but rather the Capitol police which is under the control of Congress. Am I misinformed about that?
- neogodless 6y ago
  No, you are correct. But the Capitol is in DC, and crowds outside the Capitol are in DC. I'd have to see a map to be certain, but I would imagine for any large gathering, sufficient forces may be needed the Capitol and in surrounding areas. To your point, though: > D.C. Metropolitan Police Department would be the lead agency and would coordinate with the Capitol Police, the U.S. Park Police and the U.S. Secret Service. It appears the Mayor had been requesting assistance from federal agencies in the week leading up to ceremony, but declined additional assistance greater than a force of 340[0], likely to avoid having images like this one[1] giving the impression of military being involved in the election process. [0]https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/07/954349992/where-was-the-security-when-a-mob-stormed-the-capitol https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tall... [1]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErEvfgnXAAA2kEc.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ErEvfgnXAAA2kEc.jpg

jonnyone 6y ago

That was the strangest aspect of Wednesday to me. They knew there was going to be a huge rally that day. Surely that alone would warrant beefed up security. And the idea that it was just because "they're white people" doesn't add up - even if that were their logic, it was a pro-Trump rally, wouldn't they expect counter-protesters? Weren't there weeks of Proud Boy/Antifa scuffles and violence directly preceding this? The same FBI who caught the Whitmer plotters didn't sniff out any of the multiple reports of premeditation regarding the capitol? Is it incompetence?

Ericson2314 6y ago
They are white people and the cops support their cause. The cops are racist, but they also wouldn't be this friendly had a white leftist protest escalated.
- PHGamer 6y ago
  oh please. plenty of cops bent the knee for the BLM protests and stood by as stuff happened. some cops want to crack heads, some cops think attacking the mob will make things worse.
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    You know the bolling pin machine? the one that picks up the down pins and sweeps the the rest? Go pick up your good apples and then sweep out the rest. To continue with the analogies, when the task is cleaning a mess like the Augean stables, the usual methods won't do.

guscost 6y ago

But the police also rejected offers of federal help: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-help-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380 https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel... Propaganda war to escape the blame, DC municipality against feds? Something else?

jcranmer 6y ago
The US Capitol Police is a federal agency. The Park Police is another federal police force that has concurrent jurisdiction over the area. DC's police is the Metropolitan Police of DC, which has oversight by the DC municipal authority instead of direct federal authority.
- guscost 6y ago
  Ah, feds against feds. Totally plausible!
- Animats 6y ago
  No, the Capitol Police work for Congress, not the Executive Branch. They are not under Trump at all. The Park Police, the FBI, Homeland Security cops, and the military all ultimately report to the President. The District of Columbia has a strange arrangement with its own elected officials and police, but not as much independence as a US state. This matters during a coup attempt. Note that when the Capitol Police did get backup, it was from the DC police and the Virginia State Troopers. Neither was under Trump's control.
notabee 6y ago
Capitol police != DC Metro police.
Animats 6y ago
Tough call. Which side would Federal help, which reports to Trump, been on? The Capitol Police work for Congress, not the Executive Branch, by the way. There were a number of other possible bad outcomes. One was a huge Federal presence of armed troops in the House chamber during the vote. Trump was trying desperately to influence or delay the vote.[1] Having armed soldiers in body armor standing over Congress would have emboldened his people to stall or interfere. Anyway, that's just speculation now. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/mike-lee-tommy-tuberville-trump-misdialed-capitol-riot/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/mike-lee-tommy-tuber...

threwaway4392 6y ago

The Pentagon, through a political appointee appointed after Nov 3, blocking neighboring states over sending the national guard towards the capitol during the riots [1]. (edited for better wording)

threesmegiste 6y ago

İts not about protecting them. İts about make them seem dangerous. Result trump will go away. So basic.