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> sustained left-wing effort to paint the 2016 election as illegitimate That is such a purposely flawed statement that it is effectively a pure lie even if som

> sustained left-wing effort to paint the 2016 election as illegitimate That is such a purposely flawed statement that it is effectively a pure lie even if some of those beats are somewhat true. Trump has been claiming election fraud since 2016. He claimed he got more votes than Clinton and that three million people voted illegally in California which is why he lost the popular vote. The only things claimed illegitimate by anyone with any power in the left were either "it isn't fair that the popular vote doesn't matter", "we shouldn't disenfranchise voters as the GOP keeps trying to do in the name of 'election security'" or "certain actors illegally acted around the 2016 election". There is a world of difference between that last one (the closest to illegitimate) and an actual claim of fraud.

roenxi 6y ago
Look, I'm sure it is about to become an over-repeated political talking point, but there is a @SpeakerPelosi tweet on the record where she says in May 2017. "Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts." [0] Now I'm sure that is an out of context tweet and she probably didn't literally mean "Our elections [were] hijacked", but that would get Trump booted from Twitter. It isn't a serious argument to say that Trump is bad because his opponents can deduce he means to do secret evil so it is OK to out-of-context quote him or purposefully choose the least charitable interpretation but Pelosi can say that and get the opposite treatment. The current situation is not that unusual for losers of a US presidential elections. [0] https://twitter.com/speakerpelosi/status/864522009048494080?lang=en https://twitter.com/speakerpelosi/status/864522009048494080?...
- Guvante 6y ago
  Our election was interfered with my a foreign country. That is not at all the same thing as widespread fraud. > but that would get Trump booted from Twitter Trump has called for and praised violence for five years now. He only got banned after fanning the flames during an invasion of the capitol building. (He literally says stay peaceful but not even anything resembling leave until much later in the day) > It isn't a serious argument to say that Trump is bad because his opponents can deduce he means to do secret evil so it is OK to out-of-context quote him You don't have to out-of-context quote him. "We love you. You are all special" while talking directly to those who have invaded the Capitol. That isn't out of context at all. It is exactly what he said and there is no alternative interpretation. > Pelosi can say that and get the opposite treatment Do I need to link all of the times where Trump repeatedly said he only lost the popular vote because of fraud. It wasn't a vague statement but a direct one that was repeatedly stated. > The current situation is not that unusual for losers of a US presidential elections. No president has waited more than a day to conceded in the modern era. Unless you count Florida where there was odd things going on. Even then it was over once the Supreme Court ruled on it. Clinton was called out for not conceding the night of the election even though she did first thing in the morning. These actions are not normal. And I am not even talking about yesterday. Way before that we were way away from normal.
- NicoJuicy 6y ago
  She's talking about this for example: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-2016-u-s-elections https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-201... Are you saying the FBI is faking Russian interference? Or do you have problems understanding the context of the issue at hand?
betwixthewires 6y ago
You seem to be forgetting the 3.5 year long wall of propaganda we were inundated with claiming that Donald Trump was a Russian puppet and Russia hacked our election. You had prominent, important elected officials accusing those that disagree with that assessment of "carrying water for Putin", " doing the bidding of a dictator", things like that. You had many of the same people calling for unrest in the streets until Donald Trump is removed from office. If that isn't a sustained effort to paint the 2016 election as illegitimate I don't know what is.
- dguaraglia 6y ago
  While we are on the topic of multi-year propaganda campaigns, can you help me spell Benghazi?
- Guvante 6y ago
  Trump complained more about Russia than anyone else ever did. How many people got arrested as part of that bogus investigation again? IIRC Trump also fired multiple people to get the investigation to end. Literally played the Nixon playbook and it was all fake... Sure.
  - betwixthewires 6y ago
    I'm not saying the election of 2016 was legitimate. I never claimed the investigations and claims were bogus, just that they occurred. I'm responding to a claim that this election is called illegitimate by partisans whereas the previous one was not. Whether either election was legitimate or illegitimate, political opponents of the victors put in great effort to paint them as illegitimate. Both sides are playing this game, and to demonize the one doing it now while forgetting that it has been happening for 4 years already is disingenuous.

roenxi 6y ago

Look, I'm sure it is about to become an over-repeated political talking point, but there is a @SpeakerPelosi tweet on the record where she says in May 2017. "Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts." [0] Now I'm sure that is an out of context tweet and she probably didn't literally mean "Our elections [were] hijacked", but that would get Trump booted from Twitter. It isn't a serious argument to say that Trump is bad because his opponents can deduce he means to do secret evil so it is OK to out-of-context quote him or purposefully choose the least charitable interpretation but Pelosi can say that and get the opposite treatment. The current situation is not that unusual for losers of a US presidential elections. [0] https://twitter.com/speakerpelosi/status/864522009048494080?lang=en https://twitter.com/speakerpelosi/status/864522009048494080?...

Guvante 6y ago
Our election was interfered with my a foreign country. That is not at all the same thing as widespread fraud. > but that would get Trump booted from Twitter Trump has called for and praised violence for five years now. He only got banned after fanning the flames during an invasion of the capitol building. (He literally says stay peaceful but not even anything resembling leave until much later in the day) > It isn't a serious argument to say that Trump is bad because his opponents can deduce he means to do secret evil so it is OK to out-of-context quote him You don't have to out-of-context quote him. "We love you. You are all special" while talking directly to those who have invaded the Capitol. That isn't out of context at all. It is exactly what he said and there is no alternative interpretation. > Pelosi can say that and get the opposite treatment Do I need to link all of the times where Trump repeatedly said he only lost the popular vote because of fraud. It wasn't a vague statement but a direct one that was repeatedly stated. > The current situation is not that unusual for losers of a US presidential elections. No president has waited more than a day to conceded in the modern era. Unless you count Florida where there was odd things going on. Even then it was over once the Supreme Court ruled on it. Clinton was called out for not conceding the night of the election even though she did first thing in the morning. These actions are not normal. And I am not even talking about yesterday. Way before that we were way away from normal.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
She's talking about this for example: https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-2016-u-s-elections https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/cyber/russian-interference-in-201... Are you saying the FBI is faking Russian interference? Or do you have problems understanding the context of the issue at hand?

betwixthewires 6y ago

You seem to be forgetting the 3.5 year long wall of propaganda we were inundated with claiming that Donald Trump was a Russian puppet and Russia hacked our election. You had prominent, important elected officials accusing those that disagree with that assessment of "carrying water for Putin", " doing the bidding of a dictator", things like that. You had many of the same people calling for unrest in the streets until Donald Trump is removed from office. If that isn't a sustained effort to paint the 2016 election as illegitimate I don't know what is.

dguaraglia 6y ago
While we are on the topic of multi-year propaganda campaigns, can you help me spell Benghazi?
Guvante 6y ago
Trump complained more about Russia than anyone else ever did. How many people got arrested as part of that bogus investigation again? IIRC Trump also fired multiple people to get the investigation to end. Literally played the Nixon playbook and it was all fake... Sure.
- betwixthewires 6y ago
  I'm not saying the election of 2016 was legitimate. I never claimed the investigations and claims were bogus, just that they occurred. I'm responding to a claim that this election is called illegitimate by partisans whereas the previous one was not. Whether either election was legitimate or illegitimate, political opponents of the victors put in great effort to paint them as illegitimate. Both sides are playing this game, and to demonize the one doing it now while forgetting that it has been happening for 4 years already is disingenuous.