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They’ve been shifting the Overton window for years. Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. Are for a

by koolba 6y ago

They’ve been shifting the Overton window for years. Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. Are for a pro worker visa policy and tariffs on imports? Then you’re a nationalist (which isn’t even a bad word but they make it sound like one) Are for the right to bear arms? Then you’re an uneducated hillbilly. Are for churches and other religious institutions to decide for themselves if they remain open? Then you’re a religious nut job who thinks the world is flat.

SR2Z 6y ago
> Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. Find me one Democrat with actual power advocating for open borders. And it's not as if the speech used by xenophobes is free of racial overtones and dogwhistles, either. > Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. If you are against a woman's right to do what they please to their own body, you have to give compelling evidence for why. There is no such evidence. > (which isn’t even a bad word but they make it sound like one) Because it is a word that historically was used by people who started a lot of wars and were fixated on who/what was _truly_ part of their nation. The "they" in "they've been shifting" is a strong majority of the people around you who now value racial inclusion and self-autonomy far more highly than ever before. This is a problem of values and pretending that all of them are created equal.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  ... a word that historically was used by people who started a lot of wars... That's us. USA starts lots of wars. We've still got, what, seven going right now? Maybe it's down to six? (Ummm... Iraq Afghanistan Syria Yemen Korea Palestine Iran well that's at least seven but I'm probably missing multiple wars in Africa...)
  - koolba 6y ago
    Yep. And the one President in decades that hasn't started any is apparently the war monger.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      No, Iran is his. He assassinated their general on neutral ground. That's an act of war.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
eyelidlessness 6y ago
> Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. An infinitesimal part of the population and debate around border/immigration policy favors open borders. The framing of anything remotely mainstream as “open borders” definitely strikes me as a likely sign of racism. > Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. Yes. This is correct. > Are for a pro worker visa policy and tariffs on imports? Then you’re a nationalist (which isn’t even a bad word but they make it sound like one) Pro-worker? Or pro-worker-with-citizenship? And last I checked the objection to tariffs is that they’re harmful to all the people they’d ostensibly benefit. > Are for the right to bear arms? Then you’re an uneducated hillbilly. Not sure what uneducated hillbilly has to do with any Overton Window but the debate right now is over limiting access to certain kinds of arms, not eliminating the right to bear arms totally. > Are for churches and other religious institutions to decide for themselves if they remain open? Then you’re a religious nut job who thinks the world is flat. I don’t think the judgment has anything to do with religion, it has to do with allowing exemptions to gatherings being a public danger. You’re still a superspreader if you’re a superspreader with a good healthy positive religious faith.
- akamaka 6y ago
  > > Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. > > Yes. This is correct. Have you looked at the data of how many women are pro-life? Do you think half of women are misogynists? https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018...
  - eyelidlessness 6y ago
    Yes, I’m aware of zillions of examples of people actively participating in their own oppression. I think you’ll also find that not nearly as many women are actually anti-abortion as claim to be, at least in their own personal choices. And the women who are are perfectly comfortable forcing other women to carry pregnancies to term. How is that not misogyny?
    - akamaka 6y ago
colinmhayes 6y ago
Nationalist is absolutely a bad word. Patriot is a good word. Nationalism is what happens when patriots stop thinking critically.
- aksss 6y ago
  But we can agree that not every interest in national well-being is bad. I think that's what GP is saying - talking about (for instance) NATO members contributing their contractually agreed funding to the organization and aligning with our own contractual commitment seems like a sane position, but when it's called "nationalist" either the word isn't bad anymore or the level of hyperbole is so off the charts that the accusation doesn't mean anything. Many other examples of the "nationalism" criticism that have been pretty hyperbolic in the last four years.
jgwil2 6y ago
Your first example: > Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. It's immediately obvious you are arguing in bad faith. Literally no elected official says this. Edit: instead of downvoting, please find a counterexample and I'll gladly eat my words.
- totony 6y ago
  I agree somewhat with OP. As an example, this happened in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-jagmeet-singh-rota-racist-therrien-1.5616661 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-jagmeet-singh-rota-raci... Not the same thing, but this level of discourse is laughable.
ntsplnkv2 6y ago
I don't buy this. Who is they? The same can be done the other way around. For medical for all? You're a communist For benefits and worker protections, like unions? You're a snowflake and don't want to work This is a meaningless exercise. We have multiple levels of government, we have a courts system, a legislature, and an executive branch, all directly or indirectly elected by the people. I'm not going to make any excuses for anyone for threatening the foundation of everyone's way of life here. Sometimes your guy loses, fair and square.
Rapzid 6y ago
Holy hell. To anyone reading this; if you believe everyone not in your bucket is in the other bucket, and there are only two buckets.. I would caution you to step back and consider: 1.) Everyone not in your bucket is NOT in the other bucket 2.) Everyone not in the other bucket is NOT in your bucket Your arguments just appear to be a bunch of straw men to me. I can't identify a single one of those as mainstream viewpoints. Nobody I know who voted against Trump holds them. I'm personally a "liberal" that owns guns and am against bans an buybacks. People, please, be warry of people trying to convince you there is a binary set of beliefs and it's all-or-nothing.

by koolba 6y ago

SR2Z 6y ago

> Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. Find me one Democrat with actual power advocating for open borders. And it's not as if the speech used by xenophobes is free of racial overtones and dogwhistles, either. > Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. If you are against a woman's right to do what they please to their own body, you have to give compelling evidence for why. There is no such evidence. > (which isn’t even a bad word but they make it sound like one) Because it is a word that historically was used by people who started a lot of wars and were fixated on who/what was _truly_ part of their nation. The "they" in "they've been shifting" is a strong majority of the people around you who now value racial inclusion and self-autonomy far more highly than ever before. This is a problem of values and pretending that all of them are created equal.

jessaustin 6y ago
... a word that historically was used by people who started a lot of wars... That's us. USA starts lots of wars. We've still got, what, seven going right now? Maybe it's down to six? (Ummm... Iraq Afghanistan Syria Yemen Korea Palestine Iran well that's at least seven but I'm probably missing multiple wars in Africa...)
- koolba 6y ago
  Yep. And the one President in decades that hasn't started any is apparently the war monger.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    No, Iran is his. He assassinated their general on neutral ground. That's an act of war.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

eyelidlessness 6y ago

> Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. An infinitesimal part of the population and debate around border/immigration policy favors open borders. The framing of anything remotely mainstream as “open borders” definitely strikes me as a likely sign of racism. > Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. Yes. This is correct. > Are for a pro worker visa policy and tariffs on imports? Then you’re a nationalist (which isn’t even a bad word but they make it sound like one) Pro-worker? Or pro-worker-with-citizenship? And last I checked the objection to tariffs is that they’re harmful to all the people they’d ostensibly benefit. > Are for the right to bear arms? Then you’re an uneducated hillbilly. Not sure what uneducated hillbilly has to do with any Overton Window but the debate right now is over limiting access to certain kinds of arms, not eliminating the right to bear arms totally. > Are for churches and other religious institutions to decide for themselves if they remain open? Then you’re a religious nut job who thinks the world is flat. I don’t think the judgment has anything to do with religion, it has to do with allowing exemptions to gatherings being a public danger. You’re still a superspreader if you’re a superspreader with a good healthy positive religious faith.

akamaka 6y ago
> > Are against abortion? Then you’re a misogynist. > > Yes. This is correct. Have you looked at the data of how many women are pro-life? Do you think half of women are misogynists? https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018...
- eyelidlessness 6y ago
  Yes, I’m aware of zillions of examples of people actively participating in their own oppression. I think you’ll also find that not nearly as many women are actually anti-abortion as claim to be, at least in their own personal choices. And the women who are are perfectly comfortable forcing other women to carry pregnancies to term. How is that not misogyny?
  - akamaka 6y ago

colinmhayes 6y ago

Nationalist is absolutely a bad word. Patriot is a good word. Nationalism is what happens when patriots stop thinking critically.

aksss 6y ago
But we can agree that not every interest in national well-being is bad. I think that's what GP is saying - talking about (for instance) NATO members contributing their contractually agreed funding to the organization and aligning with our own contractual commitment seems like a sane position, but when it's called "nationalist" either the word isn't bad anymore or the level of hyperbole is so off the charts that the accusation doesn't mean anything. Many other examples of the "nationalism" criticism that have been pretty hyperbolic in the last four years.

jgwil2 6y ago

Your first example: > Are against open borders? Then you’re a racist. It's immediately obvious you are arguing in bad faith. Literally no elected official says this. Edit: instead of downvoting, please find a counterexample and I'll gladly eat my words.

totony 6y ago
I agree somewhat with OP. As an example, this happened in Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-jagmeet-singh-rota-racist-therrien-1.5616661 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ndp-jagmeet-singh-rota-raci... Not the same thing, but this level of discourse is laughable.

ntsplnkv2 6y ago

I don't buy this. Who is they? The same can be done the other way around. For medical for all? You're a communist For benefits and worker protections, like unions? You're a snowflake and don't want to work This is a meaningless exercise. We have multiple levels of government, we have a courts system, a legislature, and an executive branch, all directly or indirectly elected by the people. I'm not going to make any excuses for anyone for threatening the foundation of everyone's way of life here. Sometimes your guy loses, fair and square.

Rapzid 6y ago

Holy hell. To anyone reading this; if you believe everyone not in your bucket is in the other bucket, and there are only two buckets.. I would caution you to step back and consider: 1.) Everyone not in your bucket is NOT in the other bucket 2.) Everyone not in the other bucket is NOT in your bucket Your arguments just appear to be a bunch of straw men to me. I can't identify a single one of those as mainstream viewpoints. Nobody I know who voted against Trump holds them. I'm personally a "liberal" that owns guns and am against bans an buybacks. People, please, be warry of people trying to convince you there is a binary set of beliefs and it's all-or-nothing.