11 ms·

How do you suggest we do that without disrespecting the far greater number of Americans who voted in good faith in a free and fair election for Joe Biden? Democ

by TT3351 6y ago

How do you suggest we do that without disrespecting the far greater number of Americans who voted in good faith in a free and fair election for Joe Biden? Democracy makes losers of us all once in a while, we need to learn to live with it.

rmk 6y ago
It's obvious that most of the people who voted for the losing side did not show up at the protest. An even smaller fraction breached the Capitol Building. It's interesting that you say that Biden voters feel disrespected because Trump voters protested something in the way they did. When BLM protesters vandalized (mostly poor or middle-class people's) shops, do you think it was reasonable for non-BLM people (most Trump supporters) to be outraged? If not, therein lies the problem. BTW, there were violent riots when Trump was elected president, including in Oakland, Portland etc.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots
- TT3351 6y ago
  Perhaps I should rephrase, what are the specific policy goals you would like to see that could be pursued to help restore faith in the electoral process?
  - rmk 6y ago
    I think if there is a move to radically improve the transparency of voting no matter the method, it would restore confidence in the electoral process. Vote by mail was the main culprit, and it is easier to game voting by mail than in-person voting. So people have valid grounds to doubt the validity of elections, particularly because margins were thin (as they almost always are, but they arouse much greater suspicion when an unprecedented number are voting by mail). That is a process that each state needs to undertake, which is easier said than done. As with the covid response and vaccine administration, federalism shows its structural deficiencies again.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - TT3351 6y ago
      How is voting by mail "easier to game"? You just seem to be repeating talking points. I don't think you have any actual solutions, because you don't have any actual issues identified.
      - rmk 6y ago
        Judging by the overall tone of your comments, you don't have any actual intent of engaging in any sort of discussion. I will try nevertheless. Mail dumping, interception and modification of ballots, just plain errors in ballots or failure to mail them (these last two are not in the 'game the ballot' category, but they do happen with mail-in balloting) all occur in almost every election. Even if they do not materially change election results, they affect the perception of the legitimacy of results. The perception is as important as the reality of the process. Any law that helps improve the perception should be welcomed.
        danaliv 6y ago
        > Mail dumping, interception and modification of ballots, just plain errors in ballots or failure to mail them Did any of this actually happen? > ...they do not materially change election results... So... what’s the problem again?
    - dillondoyle 6y ago
      These deficiencies have a clear cause: Donald J. Trump. I would bet Federal bureaucracy would have hampered say a Clinton response, but Trump refused to lead, take even the most basic federal action, and he basically doesn't care beyond testing numbers affecting his election. He specifically withheld supplies and support to D states until 'they have to treat us well' e.g. be a sycophant on tv. Maybe voters would have confidence in mail-in-voting if Republicans & Trump didn't spend a year attacking it and spreading politically motivated lies. VBM is secure and many studies have shown there is very very little fraud. My state Colorado has been sending ballots to almost every voter for years and it works. A Republican SOS helped craft and refine the system. used by like something 94% of our voters, clearly trusted and used widely on both sides. Notice it doesn't get attacked by legitimate Republicans here https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colorados-mail-in-voting-system/ https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colora...
- ricardobeat 6y ago
  > non-BLM people I strongly suggest you stop and think for a bit about what this means.
  - rmk 6y ago
    This refers to people who chose not to protest on the streets. Not sure what you're taking exception to here.
    - uglycoyote 6y ago
      I chose not to protest on the streets but I would still consider myself a BLM person

by TT3351 6y ago

rmk 6y ago

It's obvious that most of the people who voted for the losing side did not show up at the protest. An even smaller fraction breached the Capitol Building. It's interesting that you say that Biden voters feel disrespected because Trump voters protested something in the way they did. When BLM protesters vandalized (mostly poor or middle-class people's) shops, do you think it was reasonable for non-BLM people (most Trump supporters) to be outraged? If not, therein lies the problem. BTW, there were violent riots when Trump was elected president, including in Oakland, Portland etc.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots

TT3351 6y ago
Perhaps I should rephrase, what are the specific policy goals you would like to see that could be pursued to help restore faith in the electoral process?
- rmk 6y ago
  I think if there is a move to radically improve the transparency of voting no matter the method, it would restore confidence in the electoral process. Vote by mail was the main culprit, and it is easier to game voting by mail than in-person voting. So people have valid grounds to doubt the validity of elections, particularly because margins were thin (as they almost always are, but they arouse much greater suspicion when an unprecedented number are voting by mail). That is a process that each state needs to undertake, which is easier said than done. As with the covid response and vaccine administration, federalism shows its structural deficiencies again.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - TT3351 6y ago
    How is voting by mail "easier to game"? You just seem to be repeating talking points. I don't think you have any actual solutions, because you don't have any actual issues identified.
    - rmk 6y ago
      Judging by the overall tone of your comments, you don't have any actual intent of engaging in any sort of discussion. I will try nevertheless. Mail dumping, interception and modification of ballots, just plain errors in ballots or failure to mail them (these last two are not in the 'game the ballot' category, but they do happen with mail-in balloting) all occur in almost every election. Even if they do not materially change election results, they affect the perception of the legitimacy of results. The perception is as important as the reality of the process. Any law that helps improve the perception should be welcomed.
      - danaliv 6y ago
        > Mail dumping, interception and modification of ballots, just plain errors in ballots or failure to mail them Did any of this actually happen? > ...they do not materially change election results... So... what’s the problem again?
  - dillondoyle 6y ago
    These deficiencies have a clear cause: Donald J. Trump. I would bet Federal bureaucracy would have hampered say a Clinton response, but Trump refused to lead, take even the most basic federal action, and he basically doesn't care beyond testing numbers affecting his election. He specifically withheld supplies and support to D states until 'they have to treat us well' e.g. be a sycophant on tv. Maybe voters would have confidence in mail-in-voting if Republicans & Trump didn't spend a year attacking it and spreading politically motivated lies. VBM is secure and many studies have shown there is very very little fraud. My state Colorado has been sending ballots to almost every voter for years and it works. A Republican SOS helped craft and refine the system. used by like something 94% of our voters, clearly trusted and used widely on both sides. Notice it doesn't get attacked by legitimate Republicans here https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colorados-mail-in-voting-system/ https://www.5280.com/2020/05/no-fraud-isnt-rampant-in-colora...
ricardobeat 6y ago
> non-BLM people I strongly suggest you stop and think for a bit about what this means.
- rmk 6y ago
  This refers to people who chose not to protest on the streets. Not sure what you're taking exception to here.
  - uglycoyote 6y ago
    I chose not to protest on the streets but I would still consider myself a BLM person