5 ms·

It appears to me that there is a huge electorate that is disgruntled and has felt that the people in power have ignored it for too long. If such a large number

by rmk 6y ago

It appears to me that there is a huge electorate that is disgruntled and has felt that the people in power have ignored it for too long. If such a large number of people have actually vandalized Congress (didn't they do something like this to the Michigan Statehouse) to make their displeasure known, then they must genuinely feel that the normal method of registering protest, i.e., voting, has ceased to function for them. The overall smug and condescending tone of the mainstream and social media barons and the professional class only exacerbates this feeling. How many of us here has had to face years of despair because of job loss, and loss of social standing due to globalization and corporate greed? Do we have any genuine hope (and more importantly, need) of understanding this 74 million?

TT3351 6y ago
How do you suggest we do that without disrespecting the far greater number of Americans who voted in good faith in a free and fair election for Joe Biden? Democracy makes losers of us all once in a while, we need to learn to live with it.
- rmk 6y ago
  It's obvious that most of the people who voted for the losing side did not show up at the protest. An even smaller fraction breached the Capitol Building. It's interesting that you say that Biden voters feel disrespected because Trump voters protested something in the way they did. When BLM protesters vandalized (mostly poor or middle-class people's) shops, do you think it was reasonable for non-BLM people (most Trump supporters) to be outraged? If not, therein lies the problem. BTW, there were violent riots when Trump was elected president, including in Oakland, Portland etc.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots
  - TT3351 6y ago
    Perhaps I should rephrase, what are the specific policy goals you would like to see that could be pursued to help restore faith in the electoral process?
    - rmk 6y ago
      I think if there is a move to radically improve the transparency of voting no matter the method, it would restore confidence in the electoral process. Vote by mail was the main culprit, and it is easier to game voting by mail than in-person voting. So people have valid grounds to doubt the validity of elections, particularly because margins were thin (as they almost always are, but they arouse much greater suspicion when an unprecedented number are voting by mail). That is a process that each state needs to undertake, which is easier said than done. As with the covid response and vaccine administration, federalism shows its structural deficiencies again.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - TT3351 6y ago
        How is voting by mail "easier to game"? You just seem to be repeating talking points. I don't think you have any actual solutions, because you don't have any actual issues identified.
        rmk 6y ago
        Judging by the overall tone of your comments, you don't have any actual intent of engaging in any sort of discussion. I will try nevertheless. Mail dumping, interception and modification of ballots, just plain errors in ballots or failure to mail them (these last two are not in the 'game the ballot' category, but they do happen with mail-in balloting) all occur in almost every election. Even if they do not materially change election results, they affect the perception of the legitimacy of results. The perception is as important as the reality of the process. Any law that helps improve the perception should be welcomed.
  - ricardobeat 6y ago
    > non-BLM people I strongly suggest you stop and think for a bit about what this means.
    - rmk 6y ago
      This refers to people who chose not to protest on the streets. Not sure what you're taking exception to here.
      - uglycoyote 6y ago
        I chose not to protest on the streets but I would still consider myself a BLM person
rootusrootus 6y ago
Those 74 million people were quick to taunt the other side for being disappointed in losing the 2016 election, they like to wave flags that say 'fuck your feelings' as some weird badge of pride. Why again are we supposed to be understanding of them? Perhaps they are, in fact, just jerks and it's okay to say so.
- Rapzid 6y ago
  I think both sides have a problem with assuming everyone on the other side fits a single mold. Apparently that mold fitting the more radical elements of the other side. Actually, one of the magical things Trump did was prey on a lot of individuals individual desires while getting them to ignore all the stuff he promised to others that they don't agree with. But anyway, just because you voted for somebody doesn't mean you agree with them on everything. That's as true for the left as it is the right.
- pnw_hazor 6y ago
  Was that before or after many high-level Democrats and Celebrities denounced Trump and committed to resistance on Nov 3, 2015. 4+ years of no-quarter given raging against Trump has set the tone for the future of America. I don't think anyone is going to like that future.
  - rootusrootus 6y ago
    So it was only in 2016 that the opposition party decided to drag their feet in any way possible? Not 2010? And it was only in 2016 that the tone was set for America, not when the current sitting president was raging for years about how the previous president was not a real American citizen? Grab a mirror. This has been building for a lot longer than 4 years.
- OCASM 6y ago
  If the Left didn't want the Right to be mean to them maybe they shouldn't have called them nazis and deplorables.
  - 6y ago
Rapzid 6y ago
> understanding this 74 million You believe you have no hope of understanding nearly half of all voters? You think 74 million people all think the same?
- rmk 6y ago
  The 74 million are mostly conservatives. I don't think they are all the same, but as a group they do have at least a few defining issues that they agree on?
  - Rapzid 6y ago
    Sure, but don't believe that as American's there are a few defining issues they agree on along with just about everyone else in the country? Don't you think there are many things they don't agree on? Heck, GOP got jack-all done in the first two years because they apparently don't agree all that much.
cycrutchfield 6y ago
>It appears to me that there is a huge electorate that is disgruntled and has felt that the people in power have ignored it for too long They literally had 4 years of their president sitting in the oval office, during 2 of which they controlled the legislature as well. If they felt ignored by the people in power, then it was THEIR people that THEY elected that were ignoring them. And, apparently they were not dissatisfied with them because they by and large voted for them AGAIN in 2020. >then they must genuinely feel that the normal method of registering protest, i.e., voting, has ceased to function for them No, let's just call them what they are: sore losers.
- dang 6y ago
  You've been using the site primarily for political battle and breaking the site guidelines repeatedly. We ban accounts that do those things, and have asked you several times in the past to stop, so I've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by rmk 6y ago

TT3351 6y ago

How do you suggest we do that without disrespecting the far greater number of Americans who voted in good faith in a free and fair election for Joe Biden? Democracy makes losers of us all once in a while, we need to learn to live with it.

rmk 6y ago
It's obvious that most of the people who voted for the losing side did not show up at the protest. An even smaller fraction breached the Capitol Building. It's interesting that you say that Biden voters feel disrespected because Trump voters protested something in the way they did. When BLM protesters vandalized (mostly poor or middle-class people's) shops, do you think it was reasonable for non-BLM people (most Trump supporters) to be outraged? If not, therein lies the problem. BTW, there were violent riots when Trump was elected president, including in Oakland, Portland etc.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Oakland_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Portland,_Oregon_riots
- TT3351 6y ago
  Perhaps I should rephrase, what are the specific policy goals you would like to see that could be pursued to help restore faith in the electoral process?
  - rmk 6y ago
    I think if there is a move to radically improve the transparency of voting no matter the method, it would restore confidence in the electoral process. Vote by mail was the main culprit, and it is easier to game voting by mail than in-person voting. So people have valid grounds to doubt the validity of elections, particularly because margins were thin (as they almost always are, but they arouse much greater suspicion when an unprecedented number are voting by mail). That is a process that each state needs to undertake, which is easier said than done. As with the covid response and vaccine administration, federalism shows its structural deficiencies again.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - TT3351 6y ago
      How is voting by mail "easier to game"? You just seem to be repeating talking points. I don't think you have any actual solutions, because you don't have any actual issues identified.
      - rmk 6y ago
        Judging by the overall tone of your comments, you don't have any actual intent of engaging in any sort of discussion. I will try nevertheless. Mail dumping, interception and modification of ballots, just plain errors in ballots or failure to mail them (these last two are not in the 'game the ballot' category, but they do happen with mail-in balloting) all occur in almost every election. Even if they do not materially change election results, they affect the perception of the legitimacy of results. The perception is as important as the reality of the process. Any law that helps improve the perception should be welcomed.
- ricardobeat 6y ago
  > non-BLM people I strongly suggest you stop and think for a bit about what this means.
  - rmk 6y ago
    This refers to people who chose not to protest on the streets. Not sure what you're taking exception to here.
    - uglycoyote 6y ago
      I chose not to protest on the streets but I would still consider myself a BLM person

rootusrootus 6y ago

Those 74 million people were quick to taunt the other side for being disappointed in losing the 2016 election, they like to wave flags that say 'fuck your feelings' as some weird badge of pride. Why again are we supposed to be understanding of them? Perhaps they are, in fact, just jerks and it's okay to say so.

Rapzid 6y ago
I think both sides have a problem with assuming everyone on the other side fits a single mold. Apparently that mold fitting the more radical elements of the other side. Actually, one of the magical things Trump did was prey on a lot of individuals individual desires while getting them to ignore all the stuff he promised to others that they don't agree with. But anyway, just because you voted for somebody doesn't mean you agree with them on everything. That's as true for the left as it is the right.
pnw_hazor 6y ago
Was that before or after many high-level Democrats and Celebrities denounced Trump and committed to resistance on Nov 3, 2015. 4+ years of no-quarter given raging against Trump has set the tone for the future of America. I don't think anyone is going to like that future.
- rootusrootus 6y ago
  So it was only in 2016 that the opposition party decided to drag their feet in any way possible? Not 2010? And it was only in 2016 that the tone was set for America, not when the current sitting president was raging for years about how the previous president was not a real American citizen? Grab a mirror. This has been building for a lot longer than 4 years.
OCASM 6y ago
If the Left didn't want the Right to be mean to them maybe they shouldn't have called them nazis and deplorables.
- 6y ago

Rapzid 6y ago

> understanding this 74 million You believe you have no hope of understanding nearly half of all voters? You think 74 million people all think the same?

rmk 6y ago
The 74 million are mostly conservatives. I don't think they are all the same, but as a group they do have at least a few defining issues that they agree on?
- Rapzid 6y ago
  Sure, but don't believe that as American's there are a few defining issues they agree on along with just about everyone else in the country? Don't you think there are many things they don't agree on? Heck, GOP got jack-all done in the first two years because they apparently don't agree all that much.

cycrutchfield 6y ago

>It appears to me that there is a huge electorate that is disgruntled and has felt that the people in power have ignored it for too long They literally had 4 years of their president sitting in the oval office, during 2 of which they controlled the legislature as well. If they felt ignored by the people in power, then it was THEIR people that THEY elected that were ignoring them. And, apparently they were not dissatisfied with them because they by and large voted for them AGAIN in 2020. >then they must genuinely feel that the normal method of registering protest, i.e., voting, has ceased to function for them No, let's just call them what they are: sore losers.

dang 6y ago
You've been using the site primarily for political battle and breaking the site guidelines repeatedly. We ban accounts that do those things, and have asked you several times in the past to stop, so I've banned this account. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html