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> Plotting armed violence to overturn a legitimate election result isn't. Not condoning any sort of violence or the riots from Wednesday but I think it is wort

> Plotting armed violence to overturn a legitimate election result isn't. Not condoning any sort of violence or the riots from Wednesday but I think it is worth observing that the problem isn't that there are people who are trying to "overturn a legitimate election result". The problem is that there are people who believe that the election results were not legitimate. They are acting on that premise and so in their mind they are acting to overturn an illegitimate election result. Simply asserting that they are wrong will not change things, in fact it has a good chance of making things altogether worse as it simply emphasizes the grievance that their concerns aren't being addressed. Resolving these issues isn't going to come from simply insisting that the other side is wrong. and it isn't going to come from disappearing Trump. Trump is not the source of the problem. Anything we can do to create extreme transparency and rebuild trust in our voting mechanisms would be a good start. Even if we could magically convince everyone that the vote was 100% accurate as is, the result is still evidence of significant divisions in the American electorate. Resolving these political differences isn't going to be easy. I'm not going to pretend to have some magical solutions to these divisions but we are going to have to find a better way to understand and mediate our differences. We need to find a way to rise above the tribalism that is growing stronger every day.

zucker42 6y ago
This is really a key point. If the same thing that happened on Wednesday happened in Belarus, I'm sure a lot more people would be sympathetic toward it. Sometimes, as a last resort, violence is necessary to depose evil rulers. So the most important question is how did we get to the point where a large portion of the country is living in an alternative factual reality, to the point where they think the U.S. is now like Belarus in this sense. Also, generally, how do we align better as society on what is true and not true. And I have to say that I personally think Twitter banning the other side is potentially going in the wrong direction as far as solving this problem.
lc9er 6y ago
> Simply asserting that they are wrong will not change things No one is “simply asserting”. They’ve dragged this to court and had ~60 cases thrown out for a lack of evidence. They’ve made the choice to ignore this and acted out, violently, at the prompting of their favorite social-media driven personalities.
- gwright 6y ago
  You are too focused on the election. The divisions in the electorate pre-date the election. It should be noted that the vehement disagreement about the election is really centered on just a tiny percentage of the votes in a few swing districts. My point about division is true even if everyone suddenly accepted that the election results were accurate. We need to figure out how to resolve those underlying political differences or every single future election is going to be problematic.
  - cocacola1 6y ago
    What would you say are the "underlying political differences" here? I'm genuinely curious.
    - gwright 6y ago
      Not possible to outline the details but these are the areas that need attention by serious thinkers. Many of them intersect with each other and this isn't in any particular order: * the role of the federal government (federalism, states rights, etc) * immigration: byzantine system with no clear rationale driving policy * foreign policy: China, Russia, Middle East, North Korea, defense budget * global trade: human rights, free-trade, regulatory frameworks * sustainable energy policy: fracking, pipelines, renewables, environment * education: federal vs state, vouchers, charter schools, fixing urban education * police/judicial: militarization of police, public safety, efficient court systems * welfare system: another byzantine system with no clear rationale to drive implementation * healthcare: yet another byzantine system

zucker42 6y ago

This is really a key point. If the same thing that happened on Wednesday happened in Belarus, I'm sure a lot more people would be sympathetic toward it. Sometimes, as a last resort, violence is necessary to depose evil rulers. So the most important question is how did we get to the point where a large portion of the country is living in an alternative factual reality, to the point where they think the U.S. is now like Belarus in this sense. Also, generally, how do we align better as society on what is true and not true. And I have to say that I personally think Twitter banning the other side is potentially going in the wrong direction as far as solving this problem.

lc9er 6y ago

> Simply asserting that they are wrong will not change things No one is “simply asserting”. They’ve dragged this to court and had ~60 cases thrown out for a lack of evidence. They’ve made the choice to ignore this and acted out, violently, at the prompting of their favorite social-media driven personalities.

gwright 6y ago
You are too focused on the election. The divisions in the electorate pre-date the election. It should be noted that the vehement disagreement about the election is really centered on just a tiny percentage of the votes in a few swing districts. My point about division is true even if everyone suddenly accepted that the election results were accurate. We need to figure out how to resolve those underlying political differences or every single future election is going to be problematic.
- cocacola1 6y ago
  What would you say are the "underlying political differences" here? I'm genuinely curious.
  - gwright 6y ago
    Not possible to outline the details but these are the areas that need attention by serious thinkers. Many of them intersect with each other and this isn't in any particular order: * the role of the federal government (federalism, states rights, etc) * immigration: byzantine system with no clear rationale driving policy * foreign policy: China, Russia, Middle East, North Korea, defense budget * global trade: human rights, free-trade, regulatory frameworks * sustainable energy policy: fracking, pipelines, renewables, environment * education: federal vs state, vouchers, charter schools, fixing urban education * police/judicial: militarization of police, public safety, efficient court systems * welfare system: another byzantine system with no clear rationale to drive implementation * healthcare: yet another byzantine system