6 ms·

Suddenly half the population is realizing the cons of centralized platforms. Curious if this moment sparks renewed interest in decentralized tech of yesteryear

by tempsy 6y ago

Suddenly half the population is realizing the cons of centralized platforms. Curious if this moment sparks renewed interest in decentralized tech of yesteryear ie the good ol world wide web.

throwaway3699 6y ago
I do agree with you, though keep in mind that the previous version of the web worked great when it was run by engineers (that cared about silly things like freedom of speech) and not valueless executives.
- Veen 6y ago
  Engineers built every one of these services, or people who enjoy thinking of themselves as engineers.
- tempsy 6y ago
  I just mean I think we will start seeing more interest/investment in things like progressive web apps that aren’t beholden to centralized platforms but feel like native mobile apps.
  - input_sh 6y ago
    ...which will lead to nothing in this specific case because iOS is absolutely the main platform holding back PWAs.
    - tempsy 6y ago
      The point is these platforms are actively banning apps that appeal to a political party that represents half of America. if Parler is banned from the App Store a PWA is the next best thing.
- CraigJPerry 6y ago
  Do you think decentralisation is the key? I’ve been thinking about it since yesterday and i’m leaning toward profit motive as the difference. We were pretty centralised around a few locations like slashdot & newsgroups. Walled gardens were a thing, here in the UK a service called CIX was popular but AOL is the big famous one. It’s not that we communicated less, group messaging with non-techie friends was done over email - cue flashback to 300-message deep top-posted replies. It’s not that we were better in any way, the anarchist’s cookbook cost many a high school several new sets of door locks. Back orifice was a thing and was used for real scummy purposes sometimes. I landed at profit motive as the difference. Just before the era of spyware is where i’m thinking it fell apart but I’m not at all confident in my assessment.
  - solipsism 6y ago
    My guess is scale. Tens of thousands of users, versus billions of users. Scale begets financial interest, btw.
zionic 6y ago
Are they though? Half the people here come off as oblivious to the problem.
- tempsy 6y ago
  I think so. I think we will see more investment in progressive web apps for mobile.
  - cabaalis 6y ago
    Sure. And then political pressure on CAs to deny certificates will take care of that. Or on ISPs to not transmit data from certain outlets. Or on registrars to delist domains. There's plenty of ways to de-platform.
    - matz1 6y ago
      Sure there will be ISP or registrars that wouldn't support them but there could be other ISP or other registrars to support them. There's plenty of ways to re-platform.
    - vbezhenar 6y ago
      Register in .ru and use VPN. That’s what we do on the other side of the globe to escape censorship.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
ravenstine 6y ago
Half the population? Maybe half of the remaining 20% of the population.
egypturnash 6y ago
s/half the population/a little less than a third of 70% of the population Or maybe about 45% of 70% of the population. Sources: Pew Research says registered voters are about evenly split between R (29%),D (33%), and independent (34%), and also notes that the independents are pretty evenly split between “leans R” and “leans D” for a total of 44/49% here: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-20... And the Census bureau says about 70% of the population is registered to vote, with about 60% voting in 2016 here: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/election-day.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/election-day.html (Feel free to go find stats for 2020 for both of those, I can’t be bothered) Also as a moderator of a Mastodon instance, I can say that this decentralized tech is quite capable of making people STFU, I sure have defederated with a constantly growing list of fediverse nodes full of the exact same kind of shit featured in these Parler screenshots because I just do not wanna talk to anyone like that.
- jimbob45 6y ago
  Could you not just have a VPN-based board where everything fell outside of US jurisdiction?
sixothree 6y ago
I just mentioned this but you can't even get people to use firefox. It's an uphill battle. And yup, I noticed I'm not even on firefox right now.
dilap 6y ago
What good does that do you if the best hardware is locked down and they won't allow decentralized apps, though? If the web were invented today, there's not a chance in hell Apple would approve a web browser as an app. If you really think about that, I think you'll agree that current app store policies are harmful to innovation and harmful to society as a whole. At the end of the day, tech can only get you so far. You need to have a broader societal acceptance of a norm of freedom. The US is trending, quite radically, in the opposite direction.
- leshenka 6y ago
  > there's not a chance in hell Apple would approve a web browser as an app Thankfully, there is a web browser. But corporations want us to use apps instead of web browser to restrict this. Like, everything must be an app. Every social network basically forces their app down your throat. "Ew you use a browser, what a loser"
  - dilap 6y ago
    I am very grateful there is a web browser. But whatever is the next web browser can't even be invented today (perhaps), because we no longer have free computing platforms.
  - ketamine__ 6y ago
    Except Parler's app blows. It might as well be a web app. I guess it's hard to find talent when talented people don't want to work with right wing kooks.
    - jimmydorry 6y ago
      Can’t you say the same of reddit? The reddit app is actually worse and supports les features than the web version.
      - ketamine__ 6y ago
        No, the reddit app is great.
userbinator 6y ago
More likely, that half goes on to build its own centralized platform.
sg47 6y ago
That half voted for Trump. They aren't going to realize anything.
- frakkingcylons 6y ago
  They’re clearly realizing it. There’s no need to be so condescending by acting like they’re too stupid to seek out alternatives.
kemitchell 6y ago
Us-versus-them antagonism doesn't often trigger thoughts about centralization, except among specific kinds of people I expect represent themselves disproportionately here on HN. I'm seeing a lot of talk about standing up competing platforms. I'm seeing a lot of talk about destroying incumbents, as through antitrust. I'm seeing some promotion of specific, arguably decentralized, alternatives. But the more successful of those do a lot to hide "decentralized" as an implementation detail, since so few potential users understand, much less care.

by tempsy 6y ago

Suddenly half the population is realizing the cons of centralized platforms. Curious if this moment sparks renewed interest in decentralized tech of yesteryear ie the good ol world wide web.

throwaway3699 6y ago

I do agree with you, though keep in mind that the previous version of the web worked great when it was run by engineers (that cared about silly things like freedom of speech) and not valueless executives.

Veen 6y ago
Engineers built every one of these services, or people who enjoy thinking of themselves as engineers.
tempsy 6y ago
I just mean I think we will start seeing more interest/investment in things like progressive web apps that aren’t beholden to centralized platforms but feel like native mobile apps.
- input_sh 6y ago
  ...which will lead to nothing in this specific case because iOS is absolutely the main platform holding back PWAs.
  - tempsy 6y ago
    The point is these platforms are actively banning apps that appeal to a political party that represents half of America. if Parler is banned from the App Store a PWA is the next best thing.
CraigJPerry 6y ago
Do you think decentralisation is the key? I’ve been thinking about it since yesterday and i’m leaning toward profit motive as the difference. We were pretty centralised around a few locations like slashdot & newsgroups. Walled gardens were a thing, here in the UK a service called CIX was popular but AOL is the big famous one. It’s not that we communicated less, group messaging with non-techie friends was done over email - cue flashback to 300-message deep top-posted replies. It’s not that we were better in any way, the anarchist’s cookbook cost many a high school several new sets of door locks. Back orifice was a thing and was used for real scummy purposes sometimes. I landed at profit motive as the difference. Just before the era of spyware is where i’m thinking it fell apart but I’m not at all confident in my assessment.
- solipsism 6y ago
  My guess is scale. Tens of thousands of users, versus billions of users. Scale begets financial interest, btw.

zionic 6y ago

Are they though? Half the people here come off as oblivious to the problem.

tempsy 6y ago
I think so. I think we will see more investment in progressive web apps for mobile.
- cabaalis 6y ago
  Sure. And then political pressure on CAs to deny certificates will take care of that. Or on ISPs to not transmit data from certain outlets. Or on registrars to delist domains. There's plenty of ways to de-platform.
  - matz1 6y ago
    Sure there will be ISP or registrars that wouldn't support them but there could be other ISP or other registrars to support them. There's plenty of ways to re-platform.
  - vbezhenar 6y ago
    Register in .ru and use VPN. That’s what we do on the other side of the globe to escape censorship.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

ravenstine 6y ago

Half the population? Maybe half of the remaining 20% of the population.

egypturnash 6y ago

s/half the population/a little less than a third of 70% of the population Or maybe about 45% of 70% of the population. Sources: Pew Research says registered voters are about evenly split between R (29%),D (33%), and independent (34%), and also notes that the independents are pretty evenly split between “leans R” and “leans D” for a total of 44/49% here: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-20... And the Census bureau says about 70% of the population is registered to vote, with about 60% voting in 2016 here: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/election-day.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/election-day.html (Feel free to go find stats for 2020 for both of those, I can’t be bothered) Also as a moderator of a Mastodon instance, I can say that this decentralized tech is quite capable of making people STFU, I sure have defederated with a constantly growing list of fediverse nodes full of the exact same kind of shit featured in these Parler screenshots because I just do not wanna talk to anyone like that.

jimbob45 6y ago
Could you not just have a VPN-based board where everything fell outside of US jurisdiction?

sixothree 6y ago

I just mentioned this but you can't even get people to use firefox. It's an uphill battle. And yup, I noticed I'm not even on firefox right now.

dilap 6y ago

What good does that do you if the best hardware is locked down and they won't allow decentralized apps, though? If the web were invented today, there's not a chance in hell Apple would approve a web browser as an app. If you really think about that, I think you'll agree that current app store policies are harmful to innovation and harmful to society as a whole. At the end of the day, tech can only get you so far. You need to have a broader societal acceptance of a norm of freedom. The US is trending, quite radically, in the opposite direction.

leshenka 6y ago
> there's not a chance in hell Apple would approve a web browser as an app Thankfully, there is a web browser. But corporations want us to use apps instead of web browser to restrict this. Like, everything must be an app. Every social network basically forces their app down your throat. "Ew you use a browser, what a loser"
- dilap 6y ago
  I am very grateful there is a web browser. But whatever is the next web browser can't even be invented today (perhaps), because we no longer have free computing platforms.
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  Except Parler's app blows. It might as well be a web app. I guess it's hard to find talent when talented people don't want to work with right wing kooks.
  - jimmydorry 6y ago
    Can’t you say the same of reddit? The reddit app is actually worse and supports les features than the web version.
    - ketamine__ 6y ago
      No, the reddit app is great.

userbinator 6y ago

More likely, that half goes on to build its own centralized platform.

sg47 6y ago

That half voted for Trump. They aren't going to realize anything.

frakkingcylons 6y ago
They’re clearly realizing it. There’s no need to be so condescending by acting like they’re too stupid to seek out alternatives.

kemitchell 6y ago

Us-versus-them antagonism doesn't often trigger thoughts about centralization, except among specific kinds of people I expect represent themselves disproportionately here on HN. I'm seeing a lot of talk about standing up competing platforms. I'm seeing a lot of talk about destroying incumbents, as through antitrust. I'm seeing some promotion of specific, arguably decentralized, alternatives. But the more successful of those do a lot to hide "decentralized" as an implementation detail, since so few potential users understand, much less care.