6 ms·

DC resident. They came here with bombs, knives, guns, pepper spray, zip ties, set up a gallows on the lawn that's usually covered with families and little kids.

DC resident. They came here with bombs, knives, guns, pepper spray, zip ties, set up a gallows on the lawn that's usually covered with families and little kids. They attacked police officers—one died. DC is more than capable of handling rowdy protests, we have first amendment activity every day. Capitol Police chose not to be prepared and declined backup from the other police agencies for over an hour after they were overrun. This was not a joke.

belorn 6y ago
If someone construct a bomb and brings it to a demonstration, it seems at first glance like premeditated and planned and not something in the spur of the moment.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  Depends on what was meant by "a bomb" (hadn't seen the details of that story yet). I used to be into building model solid-fuel rocket engines. If you have certain two common household ingredients and a stove on hand, you can make a sizeable one in a couple of minutes. And the difference between a rocket engine and a crude pipe bomb is whether you stuff the resulting mixture into a plastic pipe vs. metal pipe, and whether you seal it off on one or both ends. So I can easily imagine some amateur pyrotechnician constructing a crude explosive in the heat of the moment (that doesn't excuse it in any way, though).
  - notional 6y ago
    it's not "a bomb" it's a bomb fool https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1347292202083512324 https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/13472922020835123...
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      As I wrote in my comment, I hadn't seen the details of that story yet. (Also, before calling me a fool, consider that your own link says that it's not confirmed whether these devices were real bombs, or fake ones.)
      - MereInterest 6y ago
        > (Also, before calling me a fool, consider that your own link says that it's not confirmed whether these devices were real bombs, or fake ones.) Does that matter in the slightest for whether or not to condemn the actions? If I plant a bomb in your house, that is an action designed to cause terror, and should be condemned. If I plant a fake bomb in your house, that is an action designed to cause terror, and should be condemned.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        > Does that matter in the slightest for whether or not to condemn the actions? It doesn't. It's also not the topic.
  - recursive 6y ago
    Most of the crowd was from out of town. Do you typically travel with household ingredients just in case?
    - tedunangst 6y ago
      Yeah, I always keep a little extra gasoline in mason jars with styrofoam when I go on road trips. https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225682/gov.uscourts.dcd.225682.1.1_2.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225682/...
  - c22 6y ago
    Context, man. It's possible to be against both raiding some 17-year-old rocket enthusiast's kitchen and also against 'amateur pyrotechnicians' leaving crude explosives of any sort in a public building, no matter how accidentally they may have been constructed in the heat of the moment.
sonotathrowaway 6y ago
Don’t forget the pentagon leaders trump installed after his latest purge refused to send in national guard until Virginia and Maryland sent in state troopers, then they suddenly switched course once they found out the coup was failing. With the coup failed, it was important to look like they weren’t complicit and knowingly stood by to allow a terrorist attack.
- zaroth 6y ago
  Citation needed. The national guard response was indeed delayed. The actual reasons for that, who was directly responsible, and any evidence for why they made that call, have not come out yet to my knowledge.
  - notional 6y ago
    A quick google search copy/pasting the op comment brings up articles on it. Stop asking for citations when you can't do the bare minimum.
  - sonotathrowaway 6y ago
    https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1/8/2007116/-Pentagon-officials-installed-in-Trump-s-purge-limited-use-of-National-Guard-to-fight-insurrection https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1/8/2007116/-Pentagon-of... As a reminder, the national guard in dc tear gassed an _actually_ peaceful group of protestors last summer so that Trump could take a photo op in front of a church. I wonder what the difference is between the two times?
    - zaroth 6y ago
      This is not a news article, this is a link to a disinformation campaign. So ironic that this drivel is what gets linked and shared. Both sides are clearly entirely capable at this game.
  - iliveincaphill 6y ago
    Or you just haven't bothered to stay informed and apprised of the latest information before coming to a forum to comment on it? - https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/08/maryland-governor-describes-delayed-permission-to-send-national-guard/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/08/... - https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533403-sasse-says-trump-was-delighted-and-excited-by-reports-of-capitol-riot https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533403-sasse-says-trump-... - https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-help-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380 https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel... - https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/08/congress-democrats-capitol-riot-inside-job-456725 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/08/congress-democrats-... Facts: - Capitol Police refused multiple types of reinforcements that were offered ahead of Jan 6 specifically because of wide-spread credible threats and discussions of violence - hours elapsed with NG on stand-by and were not deployed because they lacked authorization - Trump refused to give authorization - Pence and Pelosi and a few others had to give (can they even?) authorization for the NG to come in - Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) said Friday that he heard from senior White House officials that President Trump was "delighted" to hear that his supporters were breaking into the Capitol building in a riot Wednesday that turned deadly. - A growing number of House Democrats say they’re concerned that tactical decisions by some Capitol Police officers worsened Wednesday’s riots and have raised the possibility that the pro-Trump mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol might have had outside help. I'd really like someone to try and give the more charitable interpretation of the facts so far. You can literally make up whatever you want, try and explain it.
dillondoyle 6y ago
* they were refused backup both before hand and long delays during the seige
- sonotathrowaway 6y ago
  Said another way: they refused to provide backup until they were sure the coup had failed.

belorn 6y ago

If someone construct a bomb and brings it to a demonstration, it seems at first glance like premeditated and planned and not something in the spur of the moment.

TeMPOraL 6y ago
Depends on what was meant by "a bomb" (hadn't seen the details of that story yet). I used to be into building model solid-fuel rocket engines. If you have certain two common household ingredients and a stove on hand, you can make a sizeable one in a couple of minutes. And the difference between a rocket engine and a crude pipe bomb is whether you stuff the resulting mixture into a plastic pipe vs. metal pipe, and whether you seal it off on one or both ends. So I can easily imagine some amateur pyrotechnician constructing a crude explosive in the heat of the moment (that doesn't excuse it in any way, though).
- notional 6y ago
  it's not "a bomb" it's a bomb fool https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1347292202083512324 https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/13472922020835123...
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    As I wrote in my comment, I hadn't seen the details of that story yet. (Also, before calling me a fool, consider that your own link says that it's not confirmed whether these devices were real bombs, or fake ones.)
    - MereInterest 6y ago
      > (Also, before calling me a fool, consider that your own link says that it's not confirmed whether these devices were real bombs, or fake ones.) Does that matter in the slightest for whether or not to condemn the actions? If I plant a bomb in your house, that is an action designed to cause terror, and should be condemned. If I plant a fake bomb in your house, that is an action designed to cause terror, and should be condemned.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        > Does that matter in the slightest for whether or not to condemn the actions? It doesn't. It's also not the topic.
- recursive 6y ago
  Most of the crowd was from out of town. Do you typically travel with household ingredients just in case?
  - tedunangst 6y ago
    Yeah, I always keep a little extra gasoline in mason jars with styrofoam when I go on road trips. https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225682/gov.uscourts.dcd.225682.1.1_2.pdf https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225682/...
- c22 6y ago
  Context, man. It's possible to be against both raiding some 17-year-old rocket enthusiast's kitchen and also against 'amateur pyrotechnicians' leaving crude explosives of any sort in a public building, no matter how accidentally they may have been constructed in the heat of the moment.

sonotathrowaway 6y ago

Don’t forget the pentagon leaders trump installed after his latest purge refused to send in national guard until Virginia and Maryland sent in state troopers, then they suddenly switched course once they found out the coup was failing. With the coup failed, it was important to look like they weren’t complicit and knowingly stood by to allow a terrorist attack.

zaroth 6y ago
Citation needed. The national guard response was indeed delayed. The actual reasons for that, who was directly responsible, and any evidence for why they made that call, have not come out yet to my knowledge.
- notional 6y ago
  A quick google search copy/pasting the op comment brings up articles on it. Stop asking for citations when you can't do the bare minimum.
- sonotathrowaway 6y ago
  https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1/8/2007116/-Pentagon-officials-installed-in-Trump-s-purge-limited-use-of-National-Guard-to-fight-insurrection https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2021/1/8/2007116/-Pentagon-of... As a reminder, the national guard in dc tear gassed an _actually_ peaceful group of protestors last summer so that Trump could take a photo op in front of a church. I wonder what the difference is between the two times?
  - zaroth 6y ago
    This is not a news article, this is a link to a disinformation campaign. So ironic that this drivel is what gets linked and shared. Both sides are clearly entirely capable at this game.
- iliveincaphill 6y ago
  Or you just haven't bothered to stay informed and apprised of the latest information before coming to a forum to comment on it? - https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/08/maryland-governor-describes-delayed-permission-to-send-national-guard/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/08/... - https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533403-sasse-says-trump-was-delighted-and-excited-by-reports-of-capitol-riot https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/533403-sasse-says-trump-... - https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-help-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380 https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel... - https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/08/congress-democrats-capitol-riot-inside-job-456725 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/08/congress-democrats-... Facts: - Capitol Police refused multiple types of reinforcements that were offered ahead of Jan 6 specifically because of wide-spread credible threats and discussions of violence - hours elapsed with NG on stand-by and were not deployed because they lacked authorization - Trump refused to give authorization - Pence and Pelosi and a few others had to give (can they even?) authorization for the NG to come in - Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) said Friday that he heard from senior White House officials that President Trump was "delighted" to hear that his supporters were breaking into the Capitol building in a riot Wednesday that turned deadly. - A growing number of House Democrats say they’re concerned that tactical decisions by some Capitol Police officers worsened Wednesday’s riots and have raised the possibility that the pro-Trump mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol might have had outside help. I'd really like someone to try and give the more charitable interpretation of the facts so far. You can literally make up whatever you want, try and explain it.

dillondoyle 6y ago

* they were refused backup both before hand and long delays during the seige

sonotathrowaway 6y ago
Said another way: they refused to provide backup until they were sure the coup had failed.