23 ms·

The riots last summer had guns too

horsemans 6y ago
The riots last summer didn't involve insurrectionists violently invading the seat of power of the legislative branch with live ammunition intent on disrupting the peaceful transfer of power in a democratic republic.
- imbnwa 6y ago
  The whataboutism is out of control in this discussion. Its like people forget these same elements showed up to lockdown protests armed and wearing protective vests and, most important of all, attempted to kidnap the Governor of Michigan. So yeah, its a different thing altogether when these elements show up and invade the Capitol building
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    Attempted to kidnap and execute the Governor of Michigan.
    - imbnwa 6y ago
      Can't believe I forgot the best part
  - jspash 6y ago
    Whataboutism is so easy to spot yet people step right into the trap all the time. But once you can spot it, it just takes a quick remark to shut it right down. ie. either don't respond at all or kindly ask the whatabouter to stick to the topic at hand.
- neartheplain 6y ago
  You’re right, rioters in DC this summer only tried to storm the White House [0]. 72 people were arrested in DC on weapons charges during the summer riots [1]. Protestors erected a guillotine in front of Jeff Bezos’s house [2]. Rioters threw bricks through apartment windows and accosted random people on the street [3] in scenes reminiscent of the Cultural Revolution. Let’s not use the violent insurrection at the Capitol to downplay other violent episodes. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/politics/washington-dc-george-floyd-protests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/politics/washington-dc... [1] https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/may-2020-january-2021-unrest-related-arrests-and-persons-interest https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/may-2020-january-2021-unrest-relate... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-protests-guillotine-jeff-bezos-washington-dc-1528472 https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-protests-guillotine-jeff-bez... [3] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-lives-matter-protest-washington-restaurant-video-a9689731.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-live...
  - caconym_ 6y ago
    I think a useful yardstick is how many people died. IIRC a sum of around 25 deaths was attributed to all of the "BLM protests" last year, and I don't recall any police deaths that weren't eventually attributed to right-wing folks. The events of this Wednesday, a single (what I would call) medium-sized protest, got 5 people killed including one policeman, right? So just in terms of the ratio of deaths to participator-days, I think this Wednesday's event probably has last year's protests beaten by at least two orders of magnitude in the loss of life department. Even if you take away the two people who didn't die from the use of a weapon or a savage beating, I think they still got the high score by far. To be sure, mob violence should be condemned wherever it appears. But in judging movements like these, I think it's important to keep in mind a sense of proportionality, among other things.
    - benjohnson 6y ago
      2 people died tragically: A police officer from the effects of rioters and an unarmed female shot by a police officer. The three others died of natural causes - basically the strain of the protest tipped them over with heart-attacks and strokes. What I find interesting is these details don’t seem to be communicated by the media - leading many to think that the rioters killed five people.
      - caconym_ 6y ago
        Earlier I saw a report that one of the others died because he shocked himself with a Taser while trying to pull a piece of artwork off a wall. Is that not true? Otherwise I’m not sure how this is relevant to my comment, since I explicitly called out that two of the deaths were “natural causes”. I’d say that poor woman died precisely because she was brainwashed by an amorphous, cult-like movement—the very same movement behind the entire event, more or less—to think that leading an armed mob to where the members of our government’s legislative branch were taking shelter wouldn’t result in the use of force against her. So maybe the rioters didn’t kill her on an individual level, but the riot certainly did—and that’s relevant in the quantitative comparison I made in my previous comment.
      - 6y ago

The riots last summer didn't involve insurrectionists violently invading the seat of power of the legislative branch with live ammunition intent on disrupting the peaceful transfer of power in a democratic republic.

imbnwa 6y ago
The whataboutism is out of control in this discussion. Its like people forget these same elements showed up to lockdown protests armed and wearing protective vests and, most important of all, attempted to kidnap the Governor of Michigan. So yeah, its a different thing altogether when these elements show up and invade the Capitol building
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Attempted to kidnap and execute the Governor of Michigan.
  - imbnwa 6y ago
    Can't believe I forgot the best part
- jspash 6y ago
  Whataboutism is so easy to spot yet people step right into the trap all the time. But once you can spot it, it just takes a quick remark to shut it right down. ie. either don't respond at all or kindly ask the whatabouter to stick to the topic at hand.
neartheplain 6y ago
You’re right, rioters in DC this summer only tried to storm the White House [0]. 72 people were arrested in DC on weapons charges during the summer riots [1]. Protestors erected a guillotine in front of Jeff Bezos’s house [2]. Rioters threw bricks through apartment windows and accosted random people on the street [3] in scenes reminiscent of the Cultural Revolution. Let’s not use the violent insurrection at the Capitol to downplay other violent episodes. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/politics/washington-dc-george-floyd-protests.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/politics/washington-dc... [1] https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/may-2020-january-2021-unrest-related-arrests-and-persons-interest https://mpdc.dc.gov/page/may-2020-january-2021-unrest-relate... [2] https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-protests-guillotine-jeff-bezos-washington-dc-1528472 https://www.newsweek.com/amazon-protests-guillotine-jeff-bez... [3] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-lives-matter-protest-washington-restaurant-video-a9689731.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-live...
- caconym_ 6y ago
  I think a useful yardstick is how many people died. IIRC a sum of around 25 deaths was attributed to all of the "BLM protests" last year, and I don't recall any police deaths that weren't eventually attributed to right-wing folks. The events of this Wednesday, a single (what I would call) medium-sized protest, got 5 people killed including one policeman, right? So just in terms of the ratio of deaths to participator-days, I think this Wednesday's event probably has last year's protests beaten by at least two orders of magnitude in the loss of life department. Even if you take away the two people who didn't die from the use of a weapon or a savage beating, I think they still got the high score by far. To be sure, mob violence should be condemned wherever it appears. But in judging movements like these, I think it's important to keep in mind a sense of proportionality, among other things.
  - benjohnson 6y ago
    2 people died tragically: A police officer from the effects of rioters and an unarmed female shot by a police officer. The three others died of natural causes - basically the strain of the protest tipped them over with heart-attacks and strokes. What I find interesting is these details don’t seem to be communicated by the media - leading many to think that the rioters killed five people.
    - caconym_ 6y ago
      Earlier I saw a report that one of the others died because he shocked himself with a Taser while trying to pull a piece of artwork off a wall. Is that not true? Otherwise I’m not sure how this is relevant to my comment, since I explicitly called out that two of the deaths were “natural causes”. I’d say that poor woman died precisely because she was brainwashed by an amorphous, cult-like movement—the very same movement behind the entire event, more or less—to think that leading an armed mob to where the members of our government’s legislative branch were taking shelter wouldn’t result in the use of force against her. So maybe the rioters didn’t kill her on an individual level, but the riot certainly did—and that’s relevant in the quantitative comparison I made in my previous comment.
    - 6y ago