2 ms·

> they believed the tariff-free trade deal negotiated between the UK and EU meant there would be no extra charges A tariff is a governmentally mandated payment

by csense 6y ago

> they believed the tariff-free trade deal negotiated between the UK and EU meant there would be no extra charges A tariff is a governmentally mandated payment required for goods to move across a border. These people are being told by a government that they need to make a payment to have their goods move across a border. The Brexit deal says there will be no tariffs. How is this possible?

mytailorisrich 6y ago
As the article explains the charges are not tariffs but VAT and handling fees for the customs declaration and VAT collection.
- csense 6y ago
  This doesn't explain or excuse anything. Brussels: "Every time a 50-euro shelf goes from the EU to England, customers will need to pay 30 euros above the purchase price to the EU, or we have No Deal." London: "We can't agree to that. We want a tariff free Deal." Brussels: "Okay, we'll call the 30 euros a Vat Handling Fee instead of a tariff." London: "Deal." It has exactly the same economic effect as a deal with a tariff. They just changed the name from "tariff" to "Vat Handling Fee", so they'd be able to say "Tariff free deal." Thought experiment: Some politician promises people if you elect him, people will be able to mail letters without paying for a stamp. Then once he's elected, he quickly shouts from the rooftops that, indeed, you can now mail letters without a stamp. But when people actually try to do it, they find out that in order to mail letters without a stamp, you have to go down to their local post office and buy a postmark instead, which costs exactly the same as a stamp and is less convenient. The politician was technically not lying about fulfilling his promise. But he's certainly using specific technical vocabulary of the postal system in a super deceptive way. People thought "no stamps" describes a world where anyone can send letters without payment, but "no stamps" actually describes a world where there's still a payment, but the payment's now called a "postmark" instead of a "stamp." Likewise with tariffs, people think "tariff free deal" means a world where anyone can send goods across the border without payment, but "no tariffs" actually describes a world where there's still a payment, but the payment's now called a "Vat Customs Declaration Handling Fee" instead of a "tariff." It's using specific technical vocabulary of the international trade system in a super deceptive way. Reviewer: "This code shouldn't be calling function f" Developer: Renames function from f to g. Submit for re-review with commit message "Code no longer calls function f." Reviewer: Facepalm
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    There is no question of excuse and it does explain the situation. I think it's just that you do not quite get how exporting/importing works. It's standard and has nothing to do with Brexit. What Brexit does is that this now applies between the UK and the EU. If you are in the EU and import something from the UK (e.g. you buy online from a UK-based company) : - you do not pay UK VAT (exports are not subject to VAT) - the item must go through customs and have the necessary paperwork. - you need to pay your local VAT The carrier will handle this and collect VAT from you. They will charge you a handling fee for doing that. That's the way it is and has always been. It's the same if you're in any country (UK, US, any) and import something. Politicians did not misled anyone. It's just that many people don't usually import and are not familiar with the process so are surprised. Try to order something like a laptop or whatnot from the US and the same will happen plus potentially custom duty (tariff). The UK has decided to leave everything: EU, single market, customs union. So it's basically completely 'foreign' and both sides only agreed not to impose tariffs. This was made quite clear.

by csense 6y ago

mytailorisrich 6y ago

As the article explains the charges are not tariffs but VAT and handling fees for the customs declaration and VAT collection.

csense 6y ago
This doesn't explain or excuse anything. Brussels: "Every time a 50-euro shelf goes from the EU to England, customers will need to pay 30 euros above the purchase price to the EU, or we have No Deal." London: "We can't agree to that. We want a tariff free Deal." Brussels: "Okay, we'll call the 30 euros a Vat Handling Fee instead of a tariff." London: "Deal." It has exactly the same economic effect as a deal with a tariff. They just changed the name from "tariff" to "Vat Handling Fee", so they'd be able to say "Tariff free deal." Thought experiment: Some politician promises people if you elect him, people will be able to mail letters without paying for a stamp. Then once he's elected, he quickly shouts from the rooftops that, indeed, you can now mail letters without a stamp. But when people actually try to do it, they find out that in order to mail letters without a stamp, you have to go down to their local post office and buy a postmark instead, which costs exactly the same as a stamp and is less convenient. The politician was technically not lying about fulfilling his promise. But he's certainly using specific technical vocabulary of the postal system in a super deceptive way. People thought "no stamps" describes a world where anyone can send letters without payment, but "no stamps" actually describes a world where there's still a payment, but the payment's now called a "postmark" instead of a "stamp." Likewise with tariffs, people think "tariff free deal" means a world where anyone can send goods across the border without payment, but "no tariffs" actually describes a world where there's still a payment, but the payment's now called a "Vat Customs Declaration Handling Fee" instead of a "tariff." It's using specific technical vocabulary of the international trade system in a super deceptive way. Reviewer: "This code shouldn't be calling function f" Developer: Renames function from f to g. Submit for re-review with commit message "Code no longer calls function f." Reviewer: Facepalm
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  There is no question of excuse and it does explain the situation. I think it's just that you do not quite get how exporting/importing works. It's standard and has nothing to do with Brexit. What Brexit does is that this now applies between the UK and the EU. If you are in the EU and import something from the UK (e.g. you buy online from a UK-based company) : - you do not pay UK VAT (exports are not subject to VAT) - the item must go through customs and have the necessary paperwork. - you need to pay your local VAT The carrier will handle this and collect VAT from you. They will charge you a handling fee for doing that. That's the way it is and has always been. It's the same if you're in any country (UK, US, any) and import something. Politicians did not misled anyone. It's just that many people don't usually import and are not familiar with the process so are surprised. Try to order something like a laptop or whatnot from the US and the same will happen plus potentially custom duty (tariff). The UK has decided to leave everything: EU, single market, customs union. So it's basically completely 'foreign' and both sides only agreed not to impose tariffs. This was made quite clear.