4 ms·

The envelope has a name and signature. The ballot is inside the envelope. You verify the name is a valid voter, and you keep the envelope. The envelope, with

The envelope has a name and signature. The ballot is inside the envelope. You verify the name is a valid voter, and you keep the envelope. The envelope, with the signature on it, becomes the poll book. 1) Someone smuggles in completed ballots. There will not be any envelopes, and their illegal acts will be detectable. 2) Someone smuggles in completed ballots and fake envelopes. The name on the envelope can be compared to voter registrations, and you can go to a voter and ask if they in fact voted. Then the illegal acts will be detectable. What am I missing?

disgrunt 6y ago
The first thing that happens is the ballot is separated from the envelope. This is to protect the secrecy of the voter's choice. What is supposed to happen is that the signature on the envelope is matched with one on file (usually with the DMV or equivalent), but this rule was relaxed in Georgia in March 2020. This is the only point in the process where a mailed in absentee ballot can be verified. After this point it becomes a "naked ballot" and is not tied to the voter's identity [0] So to summarize: the only verification method was a name and a signature and the signature verification was rendered useless as a result of relaxed rule changes. Not that a signature verification is a reliable verification method, but this means the only verification mechanism in place other than a voter registration lookup was effectively removed. This means you could have voted absentee on someone else's behalf as long as a) you knew their name and that they were a registered voter, and b) could scribble on an envelope. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/technology/georgia-recount-signature-match.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/technology/georgia-recoun...
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  The envelope is retained. There was an audit performed on the signatures. They can count the number of envelopes vs the number of ballots. They can AND DID contact people to see if they voted. And most importantly, they can ensure one person didn't vote twice. Inventing a ballot, forging a signature, and making sure you didn't vote for someone else who would later vote themselves... 11,800 times? I'm sorry, but you need to provide evidence for that happening. Or evidence of how it COULD happen. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/a-warning-on-georgias-signature-match-11609460042 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/a-warn...
  - disgrunt 6y ago
    Someone tested this ironclad verification process and their signature was accepted eight times. [0] [0]: https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/opinion-columns/victor-joecks/victor-joecks-clark-county-election-officials-accepted-my-signature-on-8-ballot-envelopes-2182390/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/opinion-columns/victor...
    - VikingCoder 6y ago
      1) that's a different process, not the process followed for the specific signature audit 2) even that casual process caught 11% of the fraud 3) where is evidence of ANY sizable signature fraud? Your article indicates we should have caught about 11% of it, even without the more strict signature audit. 4) you still haven't answered how you find 11,800 people whose signatures you can fake, and be sure they won't ALSO vote at a later date, which would be detected. We done yet? No? Prove it in court. Or just accept the outcome of this election, and get started trying to improve security for the next election.

disgrunt 6y ago

The first thing that happens is the ballot is separated from the envelope. This is to protect the secrecy of the voter's choice. What is supposed to happen is that the signature on the envelope is matched with one on file (usually with the DMV or equivalent), but this rule was relaxed in Georgia in March 2020. This is the only point in the process where a mailed in absentee ballot can be verified. After this point it becomes a "naked ballot" and is not tied to the voter's identity [0] So to summarize: the only verification method was a name and a signature and the signature verification was rendered useless as a result of relaxed rule changes. Not that a signature verification is a reliable verification method, but this means the only verification mechanism in place other than a voter registration lookup was effectively removed. This means you could have voted absentee on someone else's behalf as long as a) you knew their name and that they were a registered voter, and b) could scribble on an envelope. [0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/technology/georgia-recount-signature-match.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/technology/georgia-recoun...

VikingCoder 6y ago
The envelope is retained. There was an audit performed on the signatures. They can count the number of envelopes vs the number of ballots. They can AND DID contact people to see if they voted. And most importantly, they can ensure one person didn't vote twice. Inventing a ballot, forging a signature, and making sure you didn't vote for someone else who would later vote themselves... 11,800 times? I'm sorry, but you need to provide evidence for that happening. Or evidence of how it COULD happen. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/a-warning-on-georgias-signature-match-11609460042 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/a-warn...
- disgrunt 6y ago
  Someone tested this ironclad verification process and their signature was accepted eight times. [0] [0]: https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/opinion-columns/victor-joecks/victor-joecks-clark-county-election-officials-accepted-my-signature-on-8-ballot-envelopes-2182390/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/opinion/opinion-columns/victor...
  - VikingCoder 6y ago
    1) that's a different process, not the process followed for the specific signature audit 2) even that casual process caught 11% of the fraud 3) where is evidence of ANY sizable signature fraud? Your article indicates we should have caught about 11% of it, even without the more strict signature audit. 4) you still haven't answered how you find 11,800 people whose signatures you can fake, and be sure they won't ALSO vote at a later date, which would be detected. We done yet? No? Prove it in court. Or just accept the outcome of this election, and get started trying to improve security for the next election.