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People might be a lot more sympathetic to factual criticism of left wing political violence if mainstream Republican politicians didn't frequently lie about it,

People might be a lot more sympathetic to factual criticism of left wing political violence if mainstream Republican politicians didn't frequently lie about it, up to and including politicians today who are claiming that Antifa was responsible for the attack on the US Capitol. When so many loud (and often elected) voices say Antifa or BLM have "burned cities down" or other such outright fabrications, it's hard to take the genuine criticism seriously.

kodah 6y ago
Objectivity is a difficult thing. When you see posts like this it's usually people who don't belong to the Republican or Democratic party who get to observe both in a light which they have limited or no biases because their own political wants are never met. Anybody who participates in a riot deserves accountability, anybody who takes over/storms/whatever verb of the day you prefer any government institution is participating in insurrection/domestic terrorism and deserves to be held to account. If you make excuses for these people, engage in hyperbole/exaggeration/dismissal, parrot narratives mindlessly, or gossip on twitter then you are contributing to a system which helps these people, groups, and institutions avoid accountability and makes us all worse off for it. We will never have a stable nation as long as any of these people do not understand the error of their ways. Immediately after this storming of the Capitol I watched liberals parrot narratives saying the "Capitol Police let them in!" and yet [0] we now have stories of how a Capitol Police officer died after trying to defend the Capitol. I watched conservatives make up all kind of rosy views about the storming of the capitol and yet ignored they were prompted by Donald Trump and his obsession with maintaining power. You're all wrong. [0] https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/08/us-capitol-riots-police-officer-dead-bringing-number-of-confirmed-fatalities-to-five https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/08/us-capitol-riots-police-...
- handedness 6y ago
  > I watched liberals parrot narratives saying the "Capitol Police let them in!" and yet... At at least one entry point, for whatever reason that narrative appears to have some justification: https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1347615998610911234 https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/134761599861091...
  - kodah 6y ago
    I've said it before on this website (about a multitude of political and cultural topics) and I'll say it again: immediately arriving at maximalist conclusions is rarely beneficial or even truthy. Let the investigations play out and the dust settle before you go making wide statements about a force of ~2,000 people who were most likely devastated at the symbology of this event and the fact that one of their colleagues is dead.
    - handedness 6y ago
      I couldn't agree more. I vastly prefer reading either analyses of last month's news–or forecasts of next month's–much more than I do what we call coverage of developing events. That said, with due respect I would note that I was responding to your apparently 'immediately arriving at a conclusion before the dust had settled' by calling her assessment a parroted narrative, likely before having seen that video. We can all do better. Hence my framing it in a very specific way to address that portion of your comment.
      - kodah 6y ago
        In the first paragraph I was responding to the poster, the second paragraph is really just directed at political and political culture people in general. It was meant to be a metaphorical 'you'. I'll try to find better ways to phrase it so my point isn't lost in the future. That said, I've seen that video. While it's significant it doesn't mean much until federal authorities investigate it. What various people on here and abroad used it to do was to craft narratives favorable to their own stances.
        handedness 6y ago
        Yeah, I have no idea what the narrative on that event will be, or what it should be, or whether those two will be the same. Facts will continue to come out and be amalgamated into various narratives to suit the various factions. I guess what I really mean to say is that someone seeing that video and thinking, "some of those people were let inside by the Capitol Police" is not the most reckless interpretation of a video clip I've seen in the last twelve months, much less in my lifetime. Now, "I saw that video and therefore it was staged by [Trump/Pelosi/etc.]," is where it becomes reckless and unjustifiable parroting of trending narratives. Let's wait for the investigation, and hope (however naively) that it is thorough and impartial, and that the public receives the full report. Edited to add: I have never seen an American public so ready to be deceived and weaponized against each other as what we've seen with this last, long cycle of increasing tension (which appears to be far from over). And it's anyone's guess as to who will weaponize that more destructively. So I think your ultimate point is both timely and important. Thank you for making it.

kodah 6y ago

Objectivity is a difficult thing. When you see posts like this it's usually people who don't belong to the Republican or Democratic party who get to observe both in a light which they have limited or no biases because their own political wants are never met. Anybody who participates in a riot deserves accountability, anybody who takes over/storms/whatever verb of the day you prefer any government institution is participating in insurrection/domestic terrorism and deserves to be held to account. If you make excuses for these people, engage in hyperbole/exaggeration/dismissal, parrot narratives mindlessly, or gossip on twitter then you are contributing to a system which helps these people, groups, and institutions avoid accountability and makes us all worse off for it. We will never have a stable nation as long as any of these people do not understand the error of their ways. Immediately after this storming of the Capitol I watched liberals parrot narratives saying the "Capitol Police let them in!" and yet [0] we now have stories of how a Capitol Police officer died after trying to defend the Capitol. I watched conservatives make up all kind of rosy views about the storming of the capitol and yet ignored they were prompted by Donald Trump and his obsession with maintaining power. You're all wrong. [0] https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/08/us-capitol-riots-police-officer-dead-bringing-number-of-confirmed-fatalities-to-five https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/08/us-capitol-riots-police-...

handedness 6y ago
> I watched liberals parrot narratives saying the "Capitol Police let them in!" and yet... At at least one entry point, for whatever reason that narrative appears to have some justification: https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1347615998610911234 https://mobile.twitter.com/disclosetv/status/134761599861091...
- kodah 6y ago
  I've said it before on this website (about a multitude of political and cultural topics) and I'll say it again: immediately arriving at maximalist conclusions is rarely beneficial or even truthy. Let the investigations play out and the dust settle before you go making wide statements about a force of ~2,000 people who were most likely devastated at the symbology of this event and the fact that one of their colleagues is dead.
  - handedness 6y ago
    I couldn't agree more. I vastly prefer reading either analyses of last month's news–or forecasts of next month's–much more than I do what we call coverage of developing events. That said, with due respect I would note that I was responding to your apparently 'immediately arriving at a conclusion before the dust had settled' by calling her assessment a parroted narrative, likely before having seen that video. We can all do better. Hence my framing it in a very specific way to address that portion of your comment.
    - kodah 6y ago
      In the first paragraph I was responding to the poster, the second paragraph is really just directed at political and political culture people in general. It was meant to be a metaphorical 'you'. I'll try to find better ways to phrase it so my point isn't lost in the future. That said, I've seen that video. While it's significant it doesn't mean much until federal authorities investigate it. What various people on here and abroad used it to do was to craft narratives favorable to their own stances.
      - handedness 6y ago
        Yeah, I have no idea what the narrative on that event will be, or what it should be, or whether those two will be the same. Facts will continue to come out and be amalgamated into various narratives to suit the various factions. I guess what I really mean to say is that someone seeing that video and thinking, "some of those people were let inside by the Capitol Police" is not the most reckless interpretation of a video clip I've seen in the last twelve months, much less in my lifetime. Now, "I saw that video and therefore it was staged by [Trump/Pelosi/etc.]," is where it becomes reckless and unjustifiable parroting of trending narratives. Let's wait for the investigation, and hope (however naively) that it is thorough and impartial, and that the public receives the full report. Edited to add: I have never seen an American public so ready to be deceived and weaponized against each other as what we've seen with this last, long cycle of increasing tension (which appears to be far from over). And it's anyone's guess as to who will weaponize that more destructively. So I think your ultimate point is both timely and important. Thank you for making it.