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I'd argue it further isolates users in those liberal echo-chambers from hearing a different opinion. Given the heavy left leaning media bias it leads to free s

I'd argue it further isolates users in those liberal echo-chambers from hearing a different opinion. Given the heavy left leaning media bias it leads to free speech being free as long as it doesn't disagree with the 'party line'. I.e. the same dynamics as in communist Soviet Union where 'enemies of the people' were ostracized and persecuted by totalitarian regime.

jakelazaroff 6y ago
Perhaps we should leave up ISIS recruitment videos, so users in liberal echo chambers can hear that differing opinion as well. /s This is not a new or exciting phenomenon. Censorship and “cancel culture” have rich histories on all sides of the American political spectrum.
- bra-ket 6y ago
  > ISIS That’s exactly the strategy communist party pursued to label their opponents all shades of evil to silence opposition. In this case conservatives are bundled into a group of ‘fascists’, ‘racists’, ‘nazis’, literally and without sarcasm, 24/7 on mainstream media, just like George Orwell described in his famous dystopia. The last time it happened in America was with McCarthyism witch hunts, methinks, so you’re right , it’s a long tradition.
  - rorykoehler 6y ago
    >In this case conservatives are bundled into a group of ‘fascists’, ‘racists’, ‘nazis’, literally and without sarcasm, That's what they are though. One side of my family are full-on conservative Trump supporters and I know for a fact that's exactly who they are.
    - kuzimoto 6y ago
      Conservatives make up roughly 50% of the United States. Are you saying all conservatives are ‘fascists’, ‘racists’, ‘nazis’?
      - rorykoehler 6y ago
        It is certainly looking that way to me. At least ~80% of them. They're all going along with this bullshit apart from a few more principled ones who are in it for the money/ self enrichment only.
        _zg4q 6y ago
        I think it's unfortunate that you feel this way, especially if it's without any evidence. I wouldn't say that 80% of liberals are communists and socialists. I think this mentality will only further the division between sides.
        uoaei 6y ago
        I highly recommend you do some studying of how Weimar Germany led to the rise of Hitler. It is no exaggeration to say that Trump is playing from a handbook which is poorly scribbled and obviously plagiarized from Hitler's.
        kuzimoto 6y ago
        I don't believe most conservatives agree with his rhetoric, they just like his policies for the most part. They probably don't even like him much, they just dislike the direction the democratic side is going enough to vote for him.
        krapp 6y ago
        > I don't believe most conservatives agree with his rhetoric, they just like his policies for the most part. They probably don't even like him much, they just dislike the direction the democratic side is going enough to vote for him. "I don't care for Hitler's rhetoric, I just voted for the Nazis because I think he has some good ideas about infrastructure and I like his jobs plan" doesn't exactly come across as sympathetic. Especially not after it becomes obvious where the trains are going. If you're a conservative or a Republican who supports Trump for his politics alone, or because he was the R and you hate the D, the moral thing to do as of January 6 is to disavow Trump entirely, and look for another candidate who supports his views, or perhaps consider supporting a third party. Not to dig in and continue making excuses for him and his supporters.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    There's a reason you're reacting to my comparison of these people to ISIS, rather than suggesting that ISIS recruitment videos be permitted. ISIS represents something "beyond the pale", so obviously bad that it's okay if we censor it because it's dangerous and seditious. You object to the comparison because it's an attack. We all know ISIS is bad, so the only reason to comparing these people to them is to make it seem like they're bad too, even though they're trying to say a lot of reasonable things if someone would just listen with an open mind! Obviously, not everyone on r/DonaldTrump is down to invade the capitol. I'm sure there are plenty of people who support ISIS that don't support their violence either. No group is homogenously made up of cartoon villains. But that doesn't mean we need to be fine with the recruiting grounds for their most violent sects. To be clear, your rhetorical position is the exact same as mine. You're perfectly fine with the exact same censorship you're ostensibly criticizing. You just want the line to be drawn somewhere else.
  - flukus 6y ago
    You skipped over it, just to be clear, do you think ISIS recruitment videos should be allowed to stay up?
rblatz 6y ago
The media is moderate, not left leaning. But anything left of Donald trump is considered socialist by his supporters.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  The media is more left leaning than 1) the median of the population and 2) the media was 20 years ago. I think 1) is what's driving the "media is left" feeling. It is left compared to the median of society. To many people (not just on the far right), that feels like the media pushing leftist views/narratives/agendas.
cygx 6y ago
Given the heavy left leaning media bias Note that Fox News remains the most-watched cable news network - though online, it ranks after CNN and NYT (and possibly others, depending on the metric).
- kuzimoto 6y ago
  Because Fox is the primary "mainstream" news source for conservative viewers. There are many more left-leaning news networks so their viewers are more divided. The majority of remaining news channels/networks/etc. have liberal bias.
  - cygx 6y ago
    Viewers have various options to choose from (eg CNN, MSNBC, Fox, Newsmax, ...). The divion CNN+MSNBC vs Fox (in terms of, say, viewership or ad revenue) seems to be roughly comparable to what you'd expect from voter demographics. If, say, Newsmax rose to prominence and we'd see more fragmentation on the 'right', or CNN and MSNBC were to merge, and we'd see less fragmentation on the 'left', what would that change?
    - kuzimoto 6y ago
      Just looking at the "AllSides Media Bias Chart" there are more "major" sources that are left-leaning than right [0]. The chart includes top sources by traffic. I mean this doesn't calculate all traffic and determine if in general left sources are more viewed but it's a start. [0] https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart
      - acdha 6y ago
        That’s a very subjective chart and by their own admission doesn’t even try to compare for honesty or credibility. Most of the two R columns routinely run fake or highly selective coverage to a degree which only Democracy Now and certain HuffPost writers approach. There is an enormous difference between an outlet like the New Yorker, which is definitely liberal but also fiercely committed to fact checking, and outlets like Newsmax or The American Conservative which are proudly movement conservatives first and journalists second, if at all. This desire to present a false equivalence is understandable - it makes it easier to avoid acknowledging a major schism in the country - but the misrepresentations requires are a disservice to their readers. Just the fact that The Economist is listed as leftist to the same degree that The Post Millenial or NY Post are listed as right wing tells you how interested they are in accuracy!

jakelazaroff 6y ago

Perhaps we should leave up ISIS recruitment videos, so users in liberal echo chambers can hear that differing opinion as well. /s This is not a new or exciting phenomenon. Censorship and “cancel culture” have rich histories on all sides of the American political spectrum.

bra-ket 6y ago
> ISIS That’s exactly the strategy communist party pursued to label their opponents all shades of evil to silence opposition. In this case conservatives are bundled into a group of ‘fascists’, ‘racists’, ‘nazis’, literally and without sarcasm, 24/7 on mainstream media, just like George Orwell described in his famous dystopia. The last time it happened in America was with McCarthyism witch hunts, methinks, so you’re right , it’s a long tradition.
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  >In this case conservatives are bundled into a group of ‘fascists’, ‘racists’, ‘nazis’, literally and without sarcasm, That's what they are though. One side of my family are full-on conservative Trump supporters and I know for a fact that's exactly who they are.
  - kuzimoto 6y ago
    Conservatives make up roughly 50% of the United States. Are you saying all conservatives are ‘fascists’, ‘racists’, ‘nazis’?
    - rorykoehler 6y ago
      It is certainly looking that way to me. At least ~80% of them. They're all going along with this bullshit apart from a few more principled ones who are in it for the money/ self enrichment only.
      - _zg4q 6y ago
        I think it's unfortunate that you feel this way, especially if it's without any evidence. I wouldn't say that 80% of liberals are communists and socialists. I think this mentality will only further the division between sides.
        uoaei 6y ago
        I highly recommend you do some studying of how Weimar Germany led to the rise of Hitler. It is no exaggeration to say that Trump is playing from a handbook which is poorly scribbled and obviously plagiarized from Hitler's.
        kuzimoto 6y ago
        I don't believe most conservatives agree with his rhetoric, they just like his policies for the most part. They probably don't even like him much, they just dislike the direction the democratic side is going enough to vote for him.
        krapp 6y ago
        > I don't believe most conservatives agree with his rhetoric, they just like his policies for the most part. They probably don't even like him much, they just dislike the direction the democratic side is going enough to vote for him. "I don't care for Hitler's rhetoric, I just voted for the Nazis because I think he has some good ideas about infrastructure and I like his jobs plan" doesn't exactly come across as sympathetic. Especially not after it becomes obvious where the trains are going. If you're a conservative or a Republican who supports Trump for his politics alone, or because he was the R and you hate the D, the moral thing to do as of January 6 is to disavow Trump entirely, and look for another candidate who supports his views, or perhaps consider supporting a third party. Not to dig in and continue making excuses for him and his supporters.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  There's a reason you're reacting to my comparison of these people to ISIS, rather than suggesting that ISIS recruitment videos be permitted. ISIS represents something "beyond the pale", so obviously bad that it's okay if we censor it because it's dangerous and seditious. You object to the comparison because it's an attack. We all know ISIS is bad, so the only reason to comparing these people to them is to make it seem like they're bad too, even though they're trying to say a lot of reasonable things if someone would just listen with an open mind! Obviously, not everyone on r/DonaldTrump is down to invade the capitol. I'm sure there are plenty of people who support ISIS that don't support their violence either. No group is homogenously made up of cartoon villains. But that doesn't mean we need to be fine with the recruiting grounds for their most violent sects. To be clear, your rhetorical position is the exact same as mine. You're perfectly fine with the exact same censorship you're ostensibly criticizing. You just want the line to be drawn somewhere else.
- flukus 6y ago
  You skipped over it, just to be clear, do you think ISIS recruitment videos should be allowed to stay up?

rblatz 6y ago

The media is moderate, not left leaning. But anything left of Donald trump is considered socialist by his supporters.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago
The media is more left leaning than 1) the median of the population and 2) the media was 20 years ago. I think 1) is what's driving the "media is left" feeling. It is left compared to the median of society. To many people (not just on the far right), that feels like the media pushing leftist views/narratives/agendas.

cygx 6y ago

Given the heavy left leaning media bias Note that Fox News remains the most-watched cable news network - though online, it ranks after CNN and NYT (and possibly others, depending on the metric).

kuzimoto 6y ago
Because Fox is the primary "mainstream" news source for conservative viewers. There are many more left-leaning news networks so their viewers are more divided. The majority of remaining news channels/networks/etc. have liberal bias.
- cygx 6y ago
  Viewers have various options to choose from (eg CNN, MSNBC, Fox, Newsmax, ...). The divion CNN+MSNBC vs Fox (in terms of, say, viewership or ad revenue) seems to be roughly comparable to what you'd expect from voter demographics. If, say, Newsmax rose to prominence and we'd see more fragmentation on the 'right', or CNN and MSNBC were to merge, and we'd see less fragmentation on the 'left', what would that change?
  - kuzimoto 6y ago
    Just looking at the "AllSides Media Bias Chart" there are more "major" sources that are left-leaning than right [0]. The chart includes top sources by traffic. I mean this doesn't calculate all traffic and determine if in general left sources are more viewed but it's a start. [0] https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart
    - acdha 6y ago
      That’s a very subjective chart and by their own admission doesn’t even try to compare for honesty or credibility. Most of the two R columns routinely run fake or highly selective coverage to a degree which only Democracy Now and certain HuffPost writers approach. There is an enormous difference between an outlet like the New Yorker, which is definitely liberal but also fiercely committed to fact checking, and outlets like Newsmax or The American Conservative which are proudly movement conservatives first and journalists second, if at all. This desire to present a false equivalence is understandable - it makes it easier to avoid acknowledging a major schism in the country - but the misrepresentations requires are a disservice to their readers. Just the fact that The Economist is listed as leftist to the same degree that The Post Millenial or NY Post are listed as right wing tells you how interested they are in accuracy!