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Since Facebook bought Whatsapp I have been upset exactly because of this. I remember having read this post at the time and considered that that was exactly the

by tapia 6y ago

Since Facebook bought Whatsapp I have been upset exactly because of this. I remember having read this post at the time and considered that that was exactly the right way to go. I started using Whatsapp and paying for it in that moment. I convinced many family members and friends to start using it because of this. Then, when they got enough users, they just decided that none of what they promised was important. Since then, I have actively trying to convince my contacts to move away from WhatsApp, but it is really hard now. This clearly shows that no matter how much trust a company might inspire at a given time, nothing prevents that ten years from now, when everyone is dependent on their technology, they will not change the rules. And nobody will be able to do anything. (Next: Apple, maybe?)

bozzcl 6y ago
I've also been trying to convince my contacts to move away from WhatsApp. I'm met with lots of resistance, including "but all my friends use it" and "lol I don't care about privacy". I've had a hard time building an argument that's convincing for them.
hinkley 6y ago
If a company isn't willing to sell a thing, but they are willing to sell the company, then they sell the thing. Just not yet.
save_ferris 6y ago
Culturally, we aren't taught to think critically enough about how businesses operate. In an environment that espouses entrepreneurship to the max, we don't spend enough time talking about if companies lie to us or not, how do they plan to monetize, etc. There's just no way that Facebook wasn't planning to monetize this platform when they wrote this article. Frankly, situations like this should be treated like deceptive advertising practices. Just like in the political arena, there are very few consequences to just flat out lie to people, and that's unacceptable.
- landhar 6y ago
  This article was written before FB acquired whatsapp back when it was still its own company. That being said, it was "only" 20 months later that FB acquired it, so it's hard to believe that the ideals discussed in this article were no longer in the founders' minds when they accepted the deal.
  - soperj 6y ago
    Didn't they refuse facebooks offer multiple times, which is why the actual price of acquisition ended up being something crazy (like $20 billion?)
    - landhar 6y ago
      If anything, one could argue that makes it even _more_ clear that they knew what FB was intending to do with whatsapp and that it wasn't aligned with their principles.
  - gitpusher 6y ago
    IIRC, the WhatsApp founders had an agreement with Zuckerberg to keep WhatsApp ad-free. I'm not sure whether that agreement was written, or merely verbal. Nevertheless, Zuck appeared to honor that agreement for a time. But of course, all roads at Facebook lead to ads – and they were pressured relentlessly to monetize. This is why they both left Facebook, and even left a large pile of $$ on the table: https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive-whatsapp-cofounder-brian-acton-gives-the-inside-story-on-deletefacebook-and-why-he-left-850-million-behind/?sh=3cc2d4523f20 https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive...
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
> (Next: Apple, maybe?) I doubt it. Apple doesn't make a dime from user data. Really, the only use they have for it, is usability/A-B testing, and crash dumps (which have been quite useful for me, as a developer). If FB brought Apple (maybe ten years ago, but today? Fat chance), then that would be a different matter, entirely. In a way, it's quite fortunate that Apple was considered too radioactive to buy, when it wasn't doing so well.
- landhar 6y ago
  As of now, I think this is a reasonable analysis when it comes to Apple. Although the point of the parent is still valid: regardless of what ideals/promises a company upholds today, they could always change tomorrow (for a variety of reasons beyond the acquisition scenario). A company that I've been wondering about is Netflix. And a reason why I haven't protested their various price increases over the years is because I'm hoping that they continue to be successful on the subscriptions alone.
- dwighttk 6y ago
  > If FB brought Apple (maybe ten years ago, but today? Fat chance) FB’s market cap wasn’t equal to AAPL’s Jan 2010 market cap until sometime in 2014.
- justapassenger 6y ago
  They do makes lot of money from user data. App Store ads are driven by what your activity. Traffic data for Apple Maps comes from your phone. Spying on competition by knowing what apps are installed, that helps them drive their products. Etc. They have different data policy for sure than google or Facebook, but they do get your data, and they use it to make more money.
  - pantulis 6y ago
    Well their value proposal is not to sell that information.
    - 6y ago

by tapia 6y ago

bozzcl 6y ago

I've also been trying to convince my contacts to move away from WhatsApp. I'm met with lots of resistance, including "but all my friends use it" and "lol I don't care about privacy". I've had a hard time building an argument that's convincing for them.

hinkley 6y ago

If a company isn't willing to sell a thing, but they are willing to sell the company, then they sell the thing. Just not yet.

save_ferris 6y ago

Culturally, we aren't taught to think critically enough about how businesses operate. In an environment that espouses entrepreneurship to the max, we don't spend enough time talking about if companies lie to us or not, how do they plan to monetize, etc. There's just no way that Facebook wasn't planning to monetize this platform when they wrote this article. Frankly, situations like this should be treated like deceptive advertising practices. Just like in the political arena, there are very few consequences to just flat out lie to people, and that's unacceptable.

landhar 6y ago
This article was written before FB acquired whatsapp back when it was still its own company. That being said, it was "only" 20 months later that FB acquired it, so it's hard to believe that the ideals discussed in this article were no longer in the founders' minds when they accepted the deal.
- soperj 6y ago
  Didn't they refuse facebooks offer multiple times, which is why the actual price of acquisition ended up being something crazy (like $20 billion?)
  - landhar 6y ago
    If anything, one could argue that makes it even _more_ clear that they knew what FB was intending to do with whatsapp and that it wasn't aligned with their principles.
- gitpusher 6y ago
  IIRC, the WhatsApp founders had an agreement with Zuckerberg to keep WhatsApp ad-free. I'm not sure whether that agreement was written, or merely verbal. Nevertheless, Zuck appeared to honor that agreement for a time. But of course, all roads at Facebook lead to ads – and they were pressured relentlessly to monetize. This is why they both left Facebook, and even left a large pile of $$ on the table: https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive-whatsapp-cofounder-brian-acton-gives-the-inside-story-on-deletefacebook-and-why-he-left-850-million-behind/?sh=3cc2d4523f20 https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2018/09/26/exclusive...

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

> (Next: Apple, maybe?) I doubt it. Apple doesn't make a dime from user data. Really, the only use they have for it, is usability/A-B testing, and crash dumps (which have been quite useful for me, as a developer). If FB brought Apple (maybe ten years ago, but today? Fat chance), then that would be a different matter, entirely. In a way, it's quite fortunate that Apple was considered too radioactive to buy, when it wasn't doing so well.

landhar 6y ago
As of now, I think this is a reasonable analysis when it comes to Apple. Although the point of the parent is still valid: regardless of what ideals/promises a company upholds today, they could always change tomorrow (for a variety of reasons beyond the acquisition scenario). A company that I've been wondering about is Netflix. And a reason why I haven't protested their various price increases over the years is because I'm hoping that they continue to be successful on the subscriptions alone.
dwighttk 6y ago
> If FB brought Apple (maybe ten years ago, but today? Fat chance) FB’s market cap wasn’t equal to AAPL’s Jan 2010 market cap until sometime in 2014.
justapassenger 6y ago
They do makes lot of money from user data. App Store ads are driven by what your activity. Traffic data for Apple Maps comes from your phone. Spying on competition by knowing what apps are installed, that helps them drive their products. Etc. They have different data policy for sure than google or Facebook, but they do get your data, and they use it to make more money.
- pantulis 6y ago
  Well their value proposal is not to sell that information.
  - 6y ago