5 ms·

This seems highly counterfeitable, not to mention a hostile person in plainclothes could pick up a gun marked as friendly from a dead security agent. This tact

by Nbox9 6y ago

This seems highly counterfeitable, not to mention a hostile person in plainclothes could pick up a gun marked as friendly from a dead security agent. This tactic would best be against a force that doesn’t know about it, or an organized force.

xnx 6y ago
So, sounds like it's better than not having the tape?
ianhawes 6y ago
It's a part of defense in depth. It's not the sole marker of good vs. bad, but it's a way to minimize friendly fire incidents. Notably, the US Secret Service uses a method of "color of the day" lapel pins and spends millions acquiring them from a specialized manufacturer. The newer models have RFID tags and IR embedded. Could someone dress up in a suit and pretend to be an agent? Sure. Could he grab one from a dead agent? Possibly. But now you're making the objective harder for an attacker and tilting the odds in your favor.
- ghostpepper 6y ago
  How does RFID and/or IR help in the middle of a shootout?
  - 0x138d5 6y ago
    If the shootout is in a low-light situation, then IR-reflective items light up like xmas lights in NODs.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    It doesn't hurt. There is no budget constraint to preclude it. It can help when overhead surveillance is providing intelligence via radio to agents on the ground or when night-vision gear is in use. Any epsilon of benefit is probably deemed worthwhile.
  - ryanmercer 6y ago
    RFID is more for tracking an asset, in this case a human, in a building I suspect. You know someone passed a sensor at a certain point, someone in a command center can go "that person isn't supposed to be there, challenge them now". IR says "this guy I have in my scope from my perch on this nice rooftop does not appear to be a friendly", as well as via fixed camera or drone. The IR Signature Control Low Emissivity Tape used by militaries says "oh they're reflecting IR in the correct pattern" by someone using NODs, cameras and scopes that aren't filtering IR, etc so when you see a bunch of people running up on you at night (or even during the day) and for whatever reason they aren't shouting or radioing the equivalent of "it's me, don't shoot!" you don't mow them down with a hail of bullets only to find out you just slaughtered a bunch of friendlies.
  - djtriptych 6y ago
    RFID is probably used for crowd control / helping agents determine who's allowed access to assets.
  - snowwrestler 6y ago
    The Secret Service pins are not for shootouts specifically but for access control of secure areas. I worked an event where the President spoke so I got one of the pins once I cleared into the secure area. I’ve still got it in a mementos box somewhere. Edit to clarify: a matching pin was not sufficient on its own to gain access to the secure area. But being in the secure area without a matching pin would certainly be sufficient to draw some official attention.
    - jaywalk 6y ago
      I've got one of those Secret Service pins as well, from an event with the VP. I'd be surprised if it has RFID, although I'm not about to tear it apart to find out.
      - dafoex 6y ago
        If you have a somewhat modern Android device (2012 flagship and onwards) you might be able to read the tag, as long as its not Mifare classic.
- SilasX 6y ago
  Yeah, but defense in depth requires that each layer make the security strictly better, or, at least, not introduce a huge vulnerability. If a non-cop picks up a tagged gun, that seems like it makes them more easily confused as as a good guy, and thus a lot more dangerous. And if you were already able to reliably distinguish plainclothes-cop from plainclothes, then what does the tagged gun add? What am I missing here?
Darmody 6y ago
It's not always the same. They change it constantly and it's probably not the only small thing that they look for.
99_00 6y ago
It's a cognitive aid, probably linked to drills and training. If an enemy has the same sticker it would slow reaction time and cause confusion, but not prevent coming to the correct decision.
irscott 6y ago
If they swap it daily/weekly/randomly/per event a counterfeiter would have to have every known variation on hand at the drop of a hat in order to reliably counterfeit it.
- Nbox9 6y ago
  Yeah. Red/white looks like the pool of possible patterns might be relatively small, and you can carry 50+ rolls of retro reflective tape in a backpack. If you knew every variation it would be easy to carry them to an event, and then apply the correct one there.

by Nbox9 6y ago

xnx 6y ago

So, sounds like it's better than not having the tape?

ianhawes 6y ago

It's a part of defense in depth. It's not the sole marker of good vs. bad, but it's a way to minimize friendly fire incidents. Notably, the US Secret Service uses a method of "color of the day" lapel pins and spends millions acquiring them from a specialized manufacturer. The newer models have RFID tags and IR embedded. Could someone dress up in a suit and pretend to be an agent? Sure. Could he grab one from a dead agent? Possibly. But now you're making the objective harder for an attacker and tilting the odds in your favor.

ghostpepper 6y ago
How does RFID and/or IR help in the middle of a shootout?
- 0x138d5 6y ago
  If the shootout is in a low-light situation, then IR-reflective items light up like xmas lights in NODs.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  It doesn't hurt. There is no budget constraint to preclude it. It can help when overhead surveillance is providing intelligence via radio to agents on the ground or when night-vision gear is in use. Any epsilon of benefit is probably deemed worthwhile.
- ryanmercer 6y ago
  RFID is more for tracking an asset, in this case a human, in a building I suspect. You know someone passed a sensor at a certain point, someone in a command center can go "that person isn't supposed to be there, challenge them now". IR says "this guy I have in my scope from my perch on this nice rooftop does not appear to be a friendly", as well as via fixed camera or drone. The IR Signature Control Low Emissivity Tape used by militaries says "oh they're reflecting IR in the correct pattern" by someone using NODs, cameras and scopes that aren't filtering IR, etc so when you see a bunch of people running up on you at night (or even during the day) and for whatever reason they aren't shouting or radioing the equivalent of "it's me, don't shoot!" you don't mow them down with a hail of bullets only to find out you just slaughtered a bunch of friendlies.
- djtriptych 6y ago
  RFID is probably used for crowd control / helping agents determine who's allowed access to assets.
- snowwrestler 6y ago
  The Secret Service pins are not for shootouts specifically but for access control of secure areas. I worked an event where the President spoke so I got one of the pins once I cleared into the secure area. I’ve still got it in a mementos box somewhere. Edit to clarify: a matching pin was not sufficient on its own to gain access to the secure area. But being in the secure area without a matching pin would certainly be sufficient to draw some official attention.
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    I've got one of those Secret Service pins as well, from an event with the VP. I'd be surprised if it has RFID, although I'm not about to tear it apart to find out.
    - dafoex 6y ago
      If you have a somewhat modern Android device (2012 flagship and onwards) you might be able to read the tag, as long as its not Mifare classic.
SilasX 6y ago
Yeah, but defense in depth requires that each layer make the security strictly better, or, at least, not introduce a huge vulnerability. If a non-cop picks up a tagged gun, that seems like it makes them more easily confused as as a good guy, and thus a lot more dangerous. And if you were already able to reliably distinguish plainclothes-cop from plainclothes, then what does the tagged gun add? What am I missing here?

Darmody 6y ago

It's not always the same. They change it constantly and it's probably not the only small thing that they look for.

99_00 6y ago

It's a cognitive aid, probably linked to drills and training. If an enemy has the same sticker it would slow reaction time and cause confusion, but not prevent coming to the correct decision.

irscott 6y ago

If they swap it daily/weekly/randomly/per event a counterfeiter would have to have every known variation on hand at the drop of a hat in order to reliably counterfeit it.

Nbox9 6y ago
Yeah. Red/white looks like the pool of possible patterns might be relatively small, and you can carry 50+ rolls of retro reflective tape in a backpack. If you knew every variation it would be easy to carry them to an event, and then apply the correct one there.