5 ms·

EFF: Apple Should Stand Up and Defend Its Developers

127 points by grellas 15y ago

akadien 15y ago
I'm sure I'm wrong (and will be summarily slapped down), but I can't help but think that it is more than just possible that Apple would expose small/indie developers like this just to cull the number of apps in their store.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - earl 15y ago
    Except for, you know, the presumably small devs that Apple fucked over in the process.
    - Total_Meltdown 15y ago
      Oh, absolutely. It'd be awful if they did this. But it'd be fun to watch Lodsys try to fend off Apple's legal team.
      - dhimes 15y ago
        I suspect if that really is a possible strategy (meaning Apple's legal team is so powerful that they would clearly beat the shit out of Lodsys's team), then threatening Lodsys with such a move would be a better one. That way, Lodsys would be scared to push too hard on the top app developers, and would back off before anyone gets hurt. Now, of course, if they actually think they can take on Apple it's a different story. And I don't know enough about how the law works here to know if they could take them on or not.
      - ZeSmith 15y ago
        Your definition of "fun" does not match mine.
  - jimmyk 15y ago
    I can't imagine it's possible to successfully sue someone for damages that were caused by a court decision.
- bradleyland 15y ago
  That just doesn't make any sense. Apple doesn't need any third-party henchmen to do this job. They have their own app-store guidelines that give them unilateral decision making capacity as to what does, and does not, make it in to their App Store.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
hvs 15y ago
My guess (and I could be completely wrong) is that Apple is working behind the scenes in some way to take care of this.
roc 15y ago
I'm having a complete inability to reconcile the reporting on this subject with the patent in question [1]. All the reporting mentions this as a problem for In-App Purchases, but the patent in question seems to only deal with soliciting user feedback. Is there some required rating component involved in In-App purchasing that runs afoul of this patent? [2] Because I'm missing the part where developers necessarily infringe on this patent as a part of using the App Store or In-App Purchasing in general. [1] 7,222,078 [2] I've admittedly only purchased in-app a few times, and I can't recall ever seeing it. And I get notably annoyed when apps throw the pop up asking me to rate their app as-is. So forcing me through a rating widget, I'd think, would stick out.
- cube13 15y ago
  IIRC, there was some mention of using this mechanism as a way to make sales to consumers in the patent. I agree, it seems more like this is over the "Rate me" dialog popup boxes than the IAP, but the suits seem to have hit developers that use IAP more than anyhting else.
- dhimes 15y ago
  I'm as lost as you. From the patent text: "One of the core purposes of the invention is illustrated in FIG. 15. This is the ability to learn interactively and iteratively from the users of products and information systems anywhere in the world while they are in use—without having to travel to their sites (or without having to bring them to a testing laboratory). Since this is a two-way link, it also offers the ability to respond meaningfully to customers and users based on worldwide, local, organizational or individual needs regardless of where they are located." ... "As envisioned by this invention, as customers and vendor employees interact to produce continuous improvement, the marketplace may be e-engineered into an interactive development environment (i.e., research and development environment, or R&D environment) with a national or global scope." It seems that they've patented a survey. I don't get it. And, anyway, a "purchase" button sure isn't what they had in mind when they wrote the patent! (BTW, "e-engineered" is verbatim. Maybe it's a term I don't know, but I took it as a typo of "re-engineered.")
  - 15y ago
r00fus 15y ago
EFF aside, Apple genuinely has a strong interest in sort this out soon. Putting FUD on the table for app development is a bad thing for their platform and profits. I expect Apple to do something smart to aid their developers in this case... I only hope it doesn't amount to paying off the patent troll. That would be a worst-case for other platforms and their developers, as this would competition blocker.
togasystems 15y ago
Anybody know if Lodsys is targeting and Android, WebOS or Windows 7 developers? Clickable link to the patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=nA2AAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q&f=false http://www.google.com/patents?id=nA2AAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&#38...
whatever_dude 15y ago
Apple? Doing something for its developers? Preposterous.
invertedlambda 15y ago
Putting aside all discussion on the validity of software patents, Apple really has an obligation to step in and muscle Lodsys to the ground. And I expect that is exactly what they will do. I doubt anyone at Apple thought it would be a good idea to push tools onto people that would then get those people sued. So most likely, Steve is in the process of releasing the Kraken, telling it to head straight for Lodsys HQ. By Monday, Lodsys should be a smoldering heap, sunk to the bottom of the ocean by the all-powerful leviathan. And there shall be much rejoicing. As an aside, I started to write a thoughtful comment but this stuff is so inane that it really just requires Apple to apply some ass-kicking-fu and make this crap go away.

127 points by grellas 15y ago

I'm sure I'm wrong (and will be summarily slapped down), but I can't help but think that it is more than just possible that Apple would expose small/indie developers like this just to cull the number of apps in their store.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
- earl 15y ago
  Except for, you know, the presumably small devs that Apple fucked over in the process.
  - Total_Meltdown 15y ago
    Oh, absolutely. It'd be awful if they did this. But it'd be fun to watch Lodsys try to fend off Apple's legal team.
    - dhimes 15y ago
      I suspect if that really is a possible strategy (meaning Apple's legal team is so powerful that they would clearly beat the shit out of Lodsys's team), then threatening Lodsys with such a move would be a better one. That way, Lodsys would be scared to push too hard on the top app developers, and would back off before anyone gets hurt. Now, of course, if they actually think they can take on Apple it's a different story. And I don't know enough about how the law works here to know if they could take them on or not.
    - ZeSmith 15y ago
      Your definition of "fun" does not match mine.
- jimmyk 15y ago
  I can't imagine it's possible to successfully sue someone for damages that were caused by a court decision.
bradleyland 15y ago
That just doesn't make any sense. Apple doesn't need any third-party henchmen to do this job. They have their own app-store guidelines that give them unilateral decision making capacity as to what does, and does not, make it in to their App Store.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

hvs 15y ago

My guess (and I could be completely wrong) is that Apple is working behind the scenes in some way to take care of this.

roc 15y ago

I'm having a complete inability to reconcile the reporting on this subject with the patent in question [1]. All the reporting mentions this as a problem for In-App Purchases, but the patent in question seems to only deal with soliciting user feedback. Is there some required rating component involved in In-App purchasing that runs afoul of this patent? [2] Because I'm missing the part where developers necessarily infringe on this patent as a part of using the App Store or In-App Purchasing in general. [1] 7,222,078 [2] I've admittedly only purchased in-app a few times, and I can't recall ever seeing it. And I get notably annoyed when apps throw the pop up asking me to rate their app as-is. So forcing me through a rating widget, I'd think, would stick out.

cube13 15y ago
IIRC, there was some mention of using this mechanism as a way to make sales to consumers in the patent. I agree, it seems more like this is over the "Rate me" dialog popup boxes than the IAP, but the suits seem to have hit developers that use IAP more than anyhting else.
dhimes 15y ago
I'm as lost as you. From the patent text: "One of the core purposes of the invention is illustrated in FIG. 15. This is the ability to learn interactively and iteratively from the users of products and information systems anywhere in the world while they are in use—without having to travel to their sites (or without having to bring them to a testing laboratory). Since this is a two-way link, it also offers the ability to respond meaningfully to customers and users based on worldwide, local, organizational or individual needs regardless of where they are located." ... "As envisioned by this invention, as customers and vendor employees interact to produce continuous improvement, the marketplace may be e-engineered into an interactive development environment (i.e., research and development environment, or R&D environment) with a national or global scope." It seems that they've patented a survey. I don't get it. And, anyway, a "purchase" button sure isn't what they had in mind when they wrote the patent! (BTW, "e-engineered" is verbatim. Maybe it's a term I don't know, but I took it as a typo of "re-engineered.")
- 15y ago

r00fus 15y ago

EFF aside, Apple genuinely has a strong interest in sort this out soon. Putting FUD on the table for app development is a bad thing for their platform and profits. I expect Apple to do something smart to aid their developers in this case... I only hope it doesn't amount to paying off the patent troll. That would be a worst-case for other platforms and their developers, as this would competition blocker.

togasystems 15y ago

Anybody know if Lodsys is targeting and Android, WebOS or Windows 7 developers? Clickable link to the patent http://www.google.com/patents?id=nA2AAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PA19#v=onepage&q&f=false http://www.google.com/patents?id=nA2AAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&#38...

whatever_dude 15y ago

Apple? Doing something for its developers? Preposterous.

invertedlambda 15y ago

Putting aside all discussion on the validity of software patents, Apple really has an obligation to step in and muscle Lodsys to the ground. And I expect that is exactly what they will do. I doubt anyone at Apple thought it would be a good idea to push tools onto people that would then get those people sued. So most likely, Steve is in the process of releasing the Kraken, telling it to head straight for Lodsys HQ. By Monday, Lodsys should be a smoldering heap, sunk to the bottom of the ocean by the all-powerful leviathan. And there shall be much rejoicing. As an aside, I started to write a thoughtful comment but this stuff is so inane that it really just requires Apple to apply some ass-kicking-fu and make this crap go away.