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> scientists Not only scientists need sci-hub. Educators need sci-hub. People writing education content. Or trying to understand existing content, steeped i

> scientists Not only scientists need sci-hub. Educators need sci-hub. People writing education content. Or trying to understand existing content, steeped in misconceptions. Students. A science-literate public. When I hobby work on OER science education content, or even when I answer a "ask a science/history/whatever question" on reddit, I use google scholar, open access. and sci-hub. And "I'd really like to see paper X" is not my common case. Though it does occur when double checking that I've finally understood something correctly. My usual case is wrestling with a concept, or trying to put an number to something. I search, and I surf, and I find a paper that might have one helpful sentence in it, 10% chance. And I can check... for only $40! And again a minute later. Or sci-hub. And it's not just greatly reduced friction - those sentences found, are not infrequently, the difference between success and punting, or the lead to a better way of understanding and explaining something. It's ironic that the American Chemical Society is working with Elsevier to make research literature less accessible to the public, while chemistry education research, describes chemistry education content, using words like "incoherent", and as leaving both students and teachers steeped in misconceptions.

hobofan 6y ago
> Students. A science-literate public. It's crazy to me that so many students don't know about sci-hub because educators are careful not to mention it in any official settings, but from more private settings it's apparent that _everyone_ is using it. This also sometimes leads to (small?) differences in academic performance, where the sci-hub-oblivious students can't factor in a highly-relevant paywalled article in e.g. a presentation because they couldn't access it.
- esperent 6y ago
  In my university my student library account gave me access to journals so even though scihub didn't exist then I don't recall ever not being able to access a paper. I assumed all universities do this, is that not the case?
  - Sabinus 6y ago
    You are fortunate to go to a university that can afford the large and increasing costs of bulk journal subscriptions.
  - mncharity 6y ago
    Using research literature in science and engineering education is a developing area. Undergraduate life sciences has been a focus, and freshman science literacy. But CREATE-like (Consider, Read, Elucidate hypotheses, Analyze and interpret data, Think of the next Experiment) strategies have also been used pre-college. IIUC, pre-college has tended to blend in, or focus on, science journalism. But I suggest there may be long-term potential to use research literature more extensively, and down towards primary school. Parts of papers can be much more accessible than others. A delightful paragraph in some paper's introduction section. Some photo, or diagram. Some graph. Or parts of a survey paper, or of a 'context of these papers' column in a good journal. There's been work on using more papers, broadly and more shallowly, rather than diving on each. Doing that pre-college, will be tech sensitive. Tech matters. Small-group collaboration tooling is important. Annotation of papers, by group and instructors, is helpful. Assorted stop-dead friction is amenable to tech fixes - "what does this mean?", "$40?!?", "what parts of this text might I be able to understand [without having to skim it all myself]?". So perhaps picture some years out, a small group of middle school students, with AR NPC peer support, surfing a content blend, of educational, outreach, journalism, and research literature, with assorted tooling support. For now, apropos sci-hub... If you think hitting paywalls is frustrating, picture the impact on STEM-retention at-risk students, with little experience, and very uncertain they are welcome here. Or you, now, surfing an HN comment, hearing of research literature being used to teach critical thinking to pre-service teachers, briefly intrigued, which might be gone in a moment, or become the seed a passion project - you google scholar, and... $40 to see more than a low-content abstract. Or sci-hub.
rolandog 6y ago
Indeed. I was frustrated to learn that a 1871 paper [0], referenced previously on a HN thread [1], wasn't freely available online. [0]: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447108640606 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1478644710864060... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25372871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25372871
- incompatible 6y ago
  That one is in the public domain, so it's legal for Sci-Hub to distribute it. I've also encountered publishers wanting tens of dollars for trivial items like news items or book reviews, even if public domain.

hobofan 6y ago

> Students. A science-literate public. It's crazy to me that so many students don't know about sci-hub because educators are careful not to mention it in any official settings, but from more private settings it's apparent that _everyone_ is using it. This also sometimes leads to (small?) differences in academic performance, where the sci-hub-oblivious students can't factor in a highly-relevant paywalled article in e.g. a presentation because they couldn't access it.

esperent 6y ago
In my university my student library account gave me access to journals so even though scihub didn't exist then I don't recall ever not being able to access a paper. I assumed all universities do this, is that not the case?
- Sabinus 6y ago
  You are fortunate to go to a university that can afford the large and increasing costs of bulk journal subscriptions.
- mncharity 6y ago
  Using research literature in science and engineering education is a developing area. Undergraduate life sciences has been a focus, and freshman science literacy. But CREATE-like (Consider, Read, Elucidate hypotheses, Analyze and interpret data, Think of the next Experiment) strategies have also been used pre-college. IIUC, pre-college has tended to blend in, or focus on, science journalism. But I suggest there may be long-term potential to use research literature more extensively, and down towards primary school. Parts of papers can be much more accessible than others. A delightful paragraph in some paper's introduction section. Some photo, or diagram. Some graph. Or parts of a survey paper, or of a 'context of these papers' column in a good journal. There's been work on using more papers, broadly and more shallowly, rather than diving on each. Doing that pre-college, will be tech sensitive. Tech matters. Small-group collaboration tooling is important. Annotation of papers, by group and instructors, is helpful. Assorted stop-dead friction is amenable to tech fixes - "what does this mean?", "$40?!?", "what parts of this text might I be able to understand [without having to skim it all myself]?". So perhaps picture some years out, a small group of middle school students, with AR NPC peer support, surfing a content blend, of educational, outreach, journalism, and research literature, with assorted tooling support. For now, apropos sci-hub... If you think hitting paywalls is frustrating, picture the impact on STEM-retention at-risk students, with little experience, and very uncertain they are welcome here. Or you, now, surfing an HN comment, hearing of research literature being used to teach critical thinking to pre-service teachers, briefly intrigued, which might be gone in a moment, or become the seed a passion project - you google scholar, and... $40 to see more than a low-content abstract. Or sci-hub.

rolandog 6y ago

Indeed. I was frustrated to learn that a 1871 paper [0], referenced previously on a HN thread [1], wasn't freely available online. [0]: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786447108640606 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/1478644710864060... [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25372871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25372871

incompatible 6y ago
That one is in the public domain, so it's legal for Sci-Hub to distribute it. I've also encountered publishers wanting tens of dollars for trivial items like news items or book reviews, even if public domain.