4 ms·

Aren't white people more likely to die by police? (seriously asking, I remember this data point but it's not in front of me).

by Exuma 6y ago

sharatvir 6y ago
There may be more white people killed by police (in sheer volume) but that’s not the same as white people being more likely to die by police.
umvi 6y ago
Not quite. More white people die by far in total, but as a percentage of the demographic more non-white people die. This is largely attributed to systemic racism, but also to poverty.
- Exuma 6y ago
  I see, thanks for explaining.
- newsbinator 6y ago
  > This is largely attributed to systemic racism Citation needed
  - Exuma 6y ago
    Yes I've wanted to say this, that in legal terms systemic racism can't be proven, but I've already kicked the bee hive enough. PS not saying racism isn't real, only that it's not as clear of an issue as everyone acts like it is.
    - gremlinsinc 6y ago
      Ask yourself honestly. If BLM or an Islamic American group had done the same thing yesterday. How many deaths would there have been? I'm guessing we'd be counting in percentages not fingers...something like 75% dead, 25% captured/in prison. For doing the SAME thing in the SAME location. I know, it's hard to prove, here say, but you know it's true. Snipers would've been out in force. Cops were high fiving and letting these people in. National Guard was told to stand down. Police were taking selfies with confederates holding flags in the People's building. This was a desecration of democracy and the rule of law in America. Everyone responsible needs at least 20 years in prison. No exceptions. Trying to disrupt our republic should have some consequences, no?
    - edmundsauto 6y ago
      It is not a clear issue, because it involves very subtle but crucial changes in attitudes from authorities to people of different categories. However, from my understanding, the research all seems to be pretty directionally consistent - minorities in the US receive worse treatment from the justice system. Here's a good overview of why the statistics might be under-reporting the size of the impact: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-capture-the-full-extent-of-the-systemic-bias-in-policing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-cap...
  - umvi 6y ago
    I didn't say it was 100% because of systemic racism, just largely attributed to systemic racism. If you need a citation for that, just look at BLM movement in 2020.
    - newsbinator 6y ago
      I mean citation needed from the people attributing this to systemic racism. I’m willing to believe them, frankly, if there’s any data or responsible analysis to back it up.
      - UncleMeat 6y ago
        There are thousands of sociology and history faculty around the country who study this for a living, publishing hundreds of peer reviewed books on the topic annually in top university presses. The research has been ongoing and clear for decades. This is a bit like saying "citation needed" for "the mitochondria is the workhorse of the cell". You just sort of gesture broadly at literally an entire field that studies this stuff. It takes almost no effort to look up some faculty member at your alma mater who studies crime, race, and policing, look up one of their books, and check it out.
        edmundsauto 6y ago
        One bit of feedback - your response comes off as a little aggressive. Even though I agree with you, I felt a little defensive when I read your comment. Maybe something like "this is pretty well studied, with lots of publications. Here's an overview that I think is particularly good and representative of the consensus. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-capture-the-full-extent-of-the-systemic-bias-in-policing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-cap..."
      - edmundsauto 6y ago
        This is a good resource. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-capture-the-full-extent-of-the-systemic-bias-in-policing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-cap...
bdamm 6y ago
Also, there are more white people than black people. So? Black people are something like 5x more likely to be arrested in a traffic stop. It's not the same at all.
- edmundsauto 6y ago
  Here's some data analysis that addresses your general concerns, by digging in to the data. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-capture-the-full-extent-of-the-systemic-bias-in-policing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-cap...
edmundsauto 6y ago
I think a black person is about 2x as likely to die in an encounter with the police. I'm not sure if that's normalized for the type of encounter.

Aren't white people more likely to die by police? (seriously asking, I remember this data point but it's not in front of me).

by Exuma 6y ago

Aren't white people more likely to die by police? (seriously asking, I remember this data point but it's not in front of me).

sharatvir 6y ago

There may be more white people killed by police (in sheer volume) but that’s not the same as white people being more likely to die by police.

umvi 6y ago

Not quite. More white people die by far in total, but as a percentage of the demographic more non-white people die. This is largely attributed to systemic racism, but also to poverty.

Exuma 6y ago
I see, thanks for explaining.
newsbinator 6y ago
> This is largely attributed to systemic racism Citation needed
- Exuma 6y ago
  Yes I've wanted to say this, that in legal terms systemic racism can't be proven, but I've already kicked the bee hive enough. PS not saying racism isn't real, only that it's not as clear of an issue as everyone acts like it is.
  - gremlinsinc 6y ago
    Ask yourself honestly. If BLM or an Islamic American group had done the same thing yesterday. How many deaths would there have been? I'm guessing we'd be counting in percentages not fingers...something like 75% dead, 25% captured/in prison. For doing the SAME thing in the SAME location. I know, it's hard to prove, here say, but you know it's true. Snipers would've been out in force. Cops were high fiving and letting these people in. National Guard was told to stand down. Police were taking selfies with confederates holding flags in the People's building. This was a desecration of democracy and the rule of law in America. Everyone responsible needs at least 20 years in prison. No exceptions. Trying to disrupt our republic should have some consequences, no?
  - edmundsauto 6y ago
    It is not a clear issue, because it involves very subtle but crucial changes in attitudes from authorities to people of different categories. However, from my understanding, the research all seems to be pretty directionally consistent - minorities in the US receive worse treatment from the justice system. Here's a good overview of why the statistics might be under-reporting the size of the impact: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-capture-the-full-extent-of-the-systemic-bias-in-policing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-cap...
- umvi 6y ago
  I didn't say it was 100% because of systemic racism, just largely attributed to systemic racism. If you need a citation for that, just look at BLM movement in 2020.
  - newsbinator 6y ago
    I mean citation needed from the people attributing this to systemic racism. I’m willing to believe them, frankly, if there’s any data or responsible analysis to back it up.
    - UncleMeat 6y ago
      There are thousands of sociology and history faculty around the country who study this for a living, publishing hundreds of peer reviewed books on the topic annually in top university presses. The research has been ongoing and clear for decades. This is a bit like saying "citation needed" for "the mitochondria is the workhorse of the cell". You just sort of gesture broadly at literally an entire field that studies this stuff. It takes almost no effort to look up some faculty member at your alma mater who studies crime, race, and policing, look up one of their books, and check it out.
      - edmundsauto 6y ago
        One bit of feedback - your response comes off as a little aggressive. Even though I agree with you, I felt a little defensive when I read your comment. Maybe something like "this is pretty well studied, with lots of publications. Here's an overview that I think is particularly good and representative of the consensus. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-capture-the-full-extent-of-the-systemic-bias-in-policing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-cap..."
    - edmundsauto 6y ago
      This is a good resource. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-capture-the-full-extent-of-the-systemic-bias-in-policing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-cap...

bdamm 6y ago

Also, there are more white people than black people. So? Black people are something like 5x more likely to be arrested in a traffic stop. It's not the same at all.

edmundsauto 6y ago
Here's some data analysis that addresses your general concerns, by digging in to the data. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-capture-the-full-extent-of-the-systemic-bias-in-policing/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-statistics-dont-cap...

edmundsauto 6y ago

I think a black person is about 2x as likely to die in an encounter with the police. I'm not sure if that's normalized for the type of encounter.