4 ms·

> Tesla's growth is almost certainly mostly predicated upon cannibalizing sales of its competitors. Yes, this is a large element of the reason that Tesla's sto

> Tesla's growth is almost certainly mostly predicated upon cannibalizing sales of its competitors. Yes, this is a large element of the reason that Tesla's stock price has grown quickly (though from here, who knows) while the incumbents have not. A notable difference that plays into the discussion is the profitability of the business itself. Tesla should be able to achieve a ~30% gross margin. The legacy companies come in around 15%, once you expense their R&D spend (it's hard to find, I did it once. They amortize it over car sales on their P&L.). A significantly higher gross margin is a significant competitive advantage, but also enables higher net earnings. In principle, P/E is founded on 'anticipated net earnings'. Clearly, buyers today (whether they are aware of it or now) are anticipating Tesla to be greatly profitable in the future. In my mind, there is no rational thesis that justifies the current trading levels. Buyers today couldn't possibly be thinking through the risk they are taking, unless they know they can hold for many years, and through stomach-churning gyrations. That said, if any NHers have a thesis that they've penciled out and which determines, 'yes, buy TSLA at $860 (1:40PM EST 1/8/21)'. I'd be very interested in seeing it.

xyzzyz 6y ago
> Clearly, buyers today (whether they are aware of it or now) are anticipating Tesla to be greatly profitable in the future. Right. To justify the current trading levels, the expectations must be that it will capture significantly bigger part of its market than any of its competitor, and it will have better profit margins than them. I simply can't see that happening over long-terem horizon. I can definitely believe that Tesla will capture large part of the market, and in fact that it becomes number one automaker. I can also believe they will significantly enjoy higher profit margin than their competition. I just can't see any path to both at the same time: this would imply having some enormous advantage that none of its competitors can get even close to. Since the competitors are not bumbling morons, I think it's unlikely.
- marvin 6y ago
  Such an advantage could be well-integrated self-driving capability, assuming they can make it work. Everyone seems to be assuming that this will be a commodity, but it might be very hard to achieve. If e.g. only two companies in the world achieve it in a reasonable timeframe, those companies will be able to price it such as to capture a large portion of the value. This is a huge market, and Tesla would already have millions of vehicles deployed.

xyzzyz 6y ago

> Clearly, buyers today (whether they are aware of it or now) are anticipating Tesla to be greatly profitable in the future. Right. To justify the current trading levels, the expectations must be that it will capture significantly bigger part of its market than any of its competitor, and it will have better profit margins than them. I simply can't see that happening over long-terem horizon. I can definitely believe that Tesla will capture large part of the market, and in fact that it becomes number one automaker. I can also believe they will significantly enjoy higher profit margin than their competition. I just can't see any path to both at the same time: this would imply having some enormous advantage that none of its competitors can get even close to. Since the competitors are not bumbling morons, I think it's unlikely.

marvin 6y ago
Such an advantage could be well-integrated self-driving capability, assuming they can make it work. Everyone seems to be assuming that this will be a commodity, but it might be very hard to achieve. If e.g. only two companies in the world achieve it in a reasonable timeframe, those companies will be able to price it such as to capture a large portion of the value. This is a huge market, and Tesla would already have millions of vehicles deployed.