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> Which, it probably goes without saying, should scare the shit out of anyone who cares about the principles of the free Internet Big tech companies are largel

by umvi 6y ago

> Which, it probably goes without saying, should scare the shit out of anyone who cares about the principles of the free Internet Big tech companies are largely left-leaning internally (which isn't surprising since California is the most left leaning state), so there is nothing to fear as long as you lean left yourself, (i.e. I guarantee you won't be censored for left-leaning speech any time soon).

rat87 6y ago
That is definitely not true
- blisterpeanuts 6y ago
  It is definitely true. There are hundreds if not thousands of right-leaning voices that have been silenced on left-leaning platforms like YT, Insta, Twit, & FB.
  - kstrauser 6y ago
    I’ve yet to see a single right-leaning voice that was silenced for being right-leaning. Without exception, every one I’ve seen silenced was for calling for violence, using ethnic slurs, or otherwise violating the site’s ToS. It seems possible to me, even likely, that if more right-leaning accounts are being banned then it’s because more of them are breaking the rules. Also, I find the idea of classifying FB as left-leaning to be laughable.
    - umvi 6y ago
      > otherwise violating the site’s ToS Your list was pretty narrow in scope until this one. ToS could contain anything and be used to censor speech for any reason.
      - kstrauser 6y ago
        Because I respect the rights of private property, I have to allow social media sites to post rules at the entrance explaining what you’re allowed to do. As long as they enforce those rules evenly, then you know what you’re signing up for when you register an account. I’ve not heard any legitimate, evidence-backed claim that any of the major sites are enforcing their rules unfairly. Instead, the claims are usually along the lines of: “I got banned for saying we should do violent stuff! And yet they allow this other ideologically opposite person to have an account!” “Can you point to a specific post where the other person is saying we should be violent?” “No, but everyone knows they support it!” Well, “everyone knows” isn’t evidence.
        blisterpeanuts 6y ago
        Would you respect the right of a restaurant to kick out a black family? After all, it's private property. Suppose it's a white family but they're wearing MAGA hats and the restaurant denies them service. That's nearly acceptable among a broad swath of the population today. Now suppose it's your mom wearing a MAGA hat (you may not like that she wears one but it's her right, no?) and she gets denied service in a Starbucks. Maybe someone gets violent with her and knocks the hat off her head. Maybe the server spits in her coffee. All of which has happened. Are you still comfortable with "private property"? Suppose you wander into a restaurant wearing a "Biden-Harris" T-shirt and they say "Get out!" Are you okay with that? I could keep going, but you get the picture. We can't have a "freedom for me, not for thee" attitude. It has to be universal.
        kstrauser 6y ago
        In every one of those cases, I support the nonviolent person. But still, we were talking about social media, not the physical world. None of that addresses whether the right is more or less likely to break the ToSes of social media sites.
- crististm 6y ago
  "definitely"? Even if true, how do you know either way?
scarmig 6y ago
Well, it depends on who's the One True Left. Most TERFy folks also identify as left wing and structure their arguments around historically progressive concepts like anti-essentialist conceptions of gender, but they're already kind of on the chopping block.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jessaustin 6y ago
We need a name for this, when USA conservatives are so sheltered from political thought that they can't tell the Left from the Centre-Right. Lots of leftist stuff has been censored in 2020, yet one repeatedly encounters this blissfully ignorant sentiment. https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1320078487970041856 https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1320078487970041856
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
watwut 6y ago
In practice, those big firms are more tiptoeing around right wing then around left wing. Also in practice, there is way bigger outcry over right wing reedits being banned then left wing reddits. Each time reddit banns a bunch of subs, there is discussion about right wings ones - including on HN. Nobody cares about left wing subs being banned, that discussion never appears. For the record, I am fine with both left and right reddits being banned right now. But I have yet to see free speech advocates to fret about toxic leftist and feminist places being closed.

by umvi 6y ago

rat87 6y ago

That is definitely not true

blisterpeanuts 6y ago
It is definitely true. There are hundreds if not thousands of right-leaning voices that have been silenced on left-leaning platforms like YT, Insta, Twit, & FB.
- kstrauser 6y ago
  I’ve yet to see a single right-leaning voice that was silenced for being right-leaning. Without exception, every one I’ve seen silenced was for calling for violence, using ethnic slurs, or otherwise violating the site’s ToS. It seems possible to me, even likely, that if more right-leaning accounts are being banned then it’s because more of them are breaking the rules. Also, I find the idea of classifying FB as left-leaning to be laughable.
  - umvi 6y ago
    > otherwise violating the site’s ToS Your list was pretty narrow in scope until this one. ToS could contain anything and be used to censor speech for any reason.
    - kstrauser 6y ago
      Because I respect the rights of private property, I have to allow social media sites to post rules at the entrance explaining what you’re allowed to do. As long as they enforce those rules evenly, then you know what you’re signing up for when you register an account. I’ve not heard any legitimate, evidence-backed claim that any of the major sites are enforcing their rules unfairly. Instead, the claims are usually along the lines of: “I got banned for saying we should do violent stuff! And yet they allow this other ideologically opposite person to have an account!” “Can you point to a specific post where the other person is saying we should be violent?” “No, but everyone knows they support it!” Well, “everyone knows” isn’t evidence.
      - blisterpeanuts 6y ago
        Would you respect the right of a restaurant to kick out a black family? After all, it's private property. Suppose it's a white family but they're wearing MAGA hats and the restaurant denies them service. That's nearly acceptable among a broad swath of the population today. Now suppose it's your mom wearing a MAGA hat (you may not like that she wears one but it's her right, no?) and she gets denied service in a Starbucks. Maybe someone gets violent with her and knocks the hat off her head. Maybe the server spits in her coffee. All of which has happened. Are you still comfortable with "private property"? Suppose you wander into a restaurant wearing a "Biden-Harris" T-shirt and they say "Get out!" Are you okay with that? I could keep going, but you get the picture. We can't have a "freedom for me, not for thee" attitude. It has to be universal.
        kstrauser 6y ago
        In every one of those cases, I support the nonviolent person. But still, we were talking about social media, not the physical world. None of that addresses whether the right is more or less likely to break the ToSes of social media sites.
crististm 6y ago
"definitely"? Even if true, how do you know either way?

scarmig 6y ago

Well, it depends on who's the One True Left. Most TERFy folks also identify as left wing and structure their arguments around historically progressive concepts like anti-essentialist conceptions of gender, but they're already kind of on the chopping block.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jessaustin 6y ago

We need a name for this, when USA conservatives are so sheltered from political thought that they can't tell the Left from the Centre-Right. Lots of leftist stuff has been censored in 2020, yet one repeatedly encounters this blissfully ignorant sentiment. https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1320078487970041856 https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1320078487970041856

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

watwut 6y ago

In practice, those big firms are more tiptoeing around right wing then around left wing. Also in practice, there is way bigger outcry over right wing reedits being banned then left wing reddits. Each time reddit banns a bunch of subs, there is discussion about right wings ones - including on HN. Nobody cares about left wing subs being banned, that discussion never appears. For the record, I am fine with both left and right reddits being banned right now. But I have yet to see free speech advocates to fret about toxic leftist and feminist places being closed.