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The Capitol Police were either incompetent or complicit. There are literally no other options. They knew there would be a big protests, numbers put it around 20

The Capitol Police were either incompetent or complicit. There are literally no other options. They knew there would be a big protests, numbers put it around 200k~300k (a tiny percentage of which actually went into the capitol building mind you). If they weren't prepared for this: incompetence. But there are videos of people getting selfies with guards, and staying within the velvet ropes when coming in. Something isn't right here and no one is talking about it.

amyjess 6y ago
They took selfies with the insurrectionists. They were complicit.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  > insurrectionists Peaceful protestors. Were the BLM people who stormed city hall in Seattle insurrectionists? Where the Black Panthers who took the California State Capitol in the 1970s insurrectionists? Stop with the bullshit name games. These were not rioters. They didn't set anything on fire. They should not have stolen or broken anything. That's wrong and bad and should be condemned. Those people should get federal time But man...you have to admit...there is something beautiful about the peasants entering the royal court, and the town idiot putting his feet up on the table that belongs to the Hand of the King. The villagers entered the royal court and the senators clutched their pearls. America has had a long history of occupying federal buildings. This is certainly not unprecedented. These people were not a coup or insurrection. They had no plan. There was no person with a new founding document they were going to read. They didn't bring in an armed force and take and occupy the capital. The overreaction to what happened is fucking insane, especially compared to what actual Rioters where allowed to get away with for the past year. In May, DC was literally on fire from the BLM riots, and we didn't see this type of DoubleSpeak.
  - amyjess 6y ago
    Storming the capitol to stop the certification of an election whose result t hey didn't like is the very definition of an attempted coup d'etat. They had zip ties meant for the purpose of taking hostages: https://twitter.com/Adiscen/status/1347189171362918400 https://twitter.com/Adiscen/status/1347189171362918400 IEDs were found at the DNC and RNC: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/pipe-bomb-rnc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/pipe-bomb-rnc... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/abc-news-exclusive-photo-suspected-explosive-device-found/story?id=75105481 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/abc-news-exclusive-photo-sus...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - chrisco255 6y ago
      They were let in. The guy with the zip ties is likely an undercover agent.
  - dvirsky 6y ago
    People planted pipe bombs in the capitol building. Wow, such peaceful, much protest.
  - g8oz 6y ago
    Some were armed and an IED was found. I recommend avoiding identity protective cognition when analyzing these events.
  - jquery 6y ago
    > But man...you have to admit...there is something beautiful about the peasants entering the royal court, and the town idiot putting his feet up on the table that belongs to the Hand of the King. >The villagers entered the royal court and the senators clutched their pearls. I agree. Although I’m definitely anti-Trump and condemn his garbage about the election being stolen, and while I don’t condone the behavior of the protestors, I don’t really see how this so much worse than business owners who had their livelihoods destroyed during the BLM riots over the summer. I don’t remember CNN or Democrats tripping over themselves to see who could use the harshest language for what had happened. Again I’m not condoning this, but honestly, given what happened, the only real tragedy was a woman was shot because a jumpy police officer shot blindly into a crowd. Our pride was embarrassed but that’s ok. Let’s learn from this and make sure it doesn’t happen again. The real problem with what happened is Trump incited it. But that’s another story.
    - rubycon22 6y ago
      Haha yeah, there wasn't this much outrage before because it was the peasant's businesses being destroyed. Protesting is now bad because it actually affected the rich, political class. Look at how different the MSM response was. Destroyed businesses and disruption to innocent people's lives was a necessary sacrifice for BLM riots. And best of all, covid is only dangerous depending on what you're protesting for. But some people going into a building?! No! Stop that!
      - vsssk 6y ago
        I don't understand how people can confidently draw such equivalencies. Just looking at the frequency of the two types of events. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_racial_violence_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_racial_violence_in_the_Un... How many is that? I can't even count. More than 50, less than 100? Versus 10, possibly way less, depending on what kind of comparisons one wants to draw? [1] Doesn't this point exactly to the significance of what happened on the 6th? Race riots have been happening in the United States for a hundred some years. They are obviously not significant in achieving the goals of the rioters. Meanwhile the storming of seats of power by an ousted leaders' supporters has the potential to change history. The former is a passing event, the latter is a rare event with some potential to change global history. [1] https://www.livescience.com/political-violence-us-capital.html https://www.livescience.com/political-violence-us-capital.ht...
  - Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
    > Were the BLM people who stormed city hall in Seattle insurrectionists? Where the Black Panthers who took the California State Capitol in the 1970s insurrectionists? No, because their goal wasn't to overturn a legally held election. > They had no plan. You got that part right.
    - zaroth 6y ago
      > No, because their goal wasn't to overturn a legally held election. When BLM stormed and occupied the city hall in Seattle, their primary demand was to remove the mayor. https://youtu.be/aA1GHvHzy8M https://youtu.be/aA1GHvHzy8M “Hey hey. Ho ho. Jenny Durkan’s got to go!”
  - optical 6y ago
    > The overreaction to what happened is fucking insane, especially compared to what actual Rioters where allowed to get away with for the past year. In May, DC was literally on fire from the BLM riots, and we didn't see this type of DoubleSpeak. Not really when you consider that the protests in may were for the correct side with the media and elites fully on board. They were for all intents and purposes sanctioned events. The 6th mob was absolutely terrifying for the media and elite since they had zero control over it. What looks like just another mob riot to a common peasant appears to be an actual threat to those which never see threats.
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    > The overreaction ... In May, DC was literally on fire from the BLM riots Speaking of overreactions ... > They didn't set anything on fire. They should not have stolen or broken anything. That's wrong and bad and should be condemned. Okay, so to be clear, there's a difference between breaking things with your hands and setting it on fire. One is "bad", and one is "rioting". Huh, interesting.
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    Black Panthers were literally insurrectionists and wore that badge with pride.
- kelchqvjpnfasjl 6y ago
  I could pull up pictures of police kneeling with BLM this summer.
  - amyjess 6y ago
    Inviting insurrectionists into the capitol to stop the certification of an election they didn't like by force is different from... giving their support to people who are against unarmed black people being murdered on sight.
  - Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
    Yeah, they kneeled for the photo op, then deployed tear gas an hour later.
    - kelchqvjpnfasjl 6y ago
      Deploying tear gas like they did in the Capitol here: https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/status/1346948665013751809 https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/status/1346948665013751809 https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss/status/1346948866868977672 https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss/status/13469488668689776... https://twitter.com/KathrynDiss/status/1346947617893265421 https://twitter.com/KathrynDiss/status/1346947617893265421 I saw a video yesterday of tear gas being used inside the capitol building but today I was only able to find videos of when it was used outside.
cperciva 6y ago
They were understaffed, and it was clear that they could not protect both the building and the people. They correctly prioritized evacuating the people.
- callmeal 6y ago
  >They were understaffed, and it was clear that they could not protect both the building and the people. They correctly prioritized evacuating the people. I think it's pretty clear at this point that they would have been overstaffed if the protestors had a different skin color.
  - opinion-is-bad 6y ago
    I don’t think that’s clear at all. I’ve seen it often repeated by the media, but there is absolutely no evidence to support it. Repeating this is only driving the two sides further apart.
  - tclancy 6y ago
    Username checks out -- if you can't see this to be obvious based on this summer, one of us is struggling with reality.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    > different skin color. In the 1970s, armed Black Panther members took the California State Capitol and no one died. At least one officer is dead (this changes daily so who knows) and one protestor (she was unarmed, that's a protestor, trespasser at best) was shot by sorry excuse of a Capitol Officer who shot wildly into a crowd (almost hitting the other Federal Officer behind her!) Please stop making this about race.
    - deathgrips 6y ago
      You're not a protester if you are breaking into congress, breaking past a barricade, being told to stop, and walking towards an officer pointing his gun at you. You're suicidal.
trophycase 6y ago
Something isn't right? Perhaps that nearly half of the elected officials present were either complicit or actively encouraging what happened?
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
I wonder if, since so many on HN feel that they are enlightened people, it is possible for us to give the benefit of the doubt to people who's jobs we don't do and probably know nothing about? Just because we work in tech does not mean we know everything, and not having been there means we don't know the circumstances anyway. It is disgustingly arrogant of any of us to proclaim that these people must be incompetent or complicit like some armchair quarterback. Christ, I mean, this is roughly the same mentality as the people who think the election was stolen based on some anecdotes and bullshit despite what election officials, courts, and other experts are saying.
- bnralt 6y ago
  Indeed, the hyperbole and conspiracy theories on all sides have lead me to detach myself from politics. There were a few hundred/thousand people who rioted at the Capitol, law enforcement in riot gear fought them with clubs and pepper spray, got overwhelmed, fell back, regrouped, and responded with a lot of force a couple hours later. One of the rioters was shot, dozens were arrested. Not a good scenario, but I've seen a lot of people who I had thought were more measured yelling about how police were assisting with an attempted coup attempt (even supposedly respected news stations were going off the deep end). It feels like the 24/7 news cycle has fried a lot of people's minds and turned everything into a final battle between good and evil.
- Fauntleroy 6y ago
  If it's any consolation, US Capitol Police chief Steve Sund was forced to resign by Congress. Seems like it's not just armchair quarterbacks who were let down by their shitty response.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    No doubt you are aware of the concept of a face-saving resignation. I'm not saying this is what happened here, I'm just saying the resignation itself is not really meaningful without more context.
smnth 6y ago
200 - 300k is hilarious, 20 - 30k is much closer to a reasonable guess.
rayiner 6y ago
The Capitol Police generally don’t (and aren’t equipped to) repel a mob entering the building. That wasn’t just for this event. It’s always like this. Trump’s “show of force” during the BLM protests (where he brought in the national guard) was an aberration for that reason.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  This isn't the first mass protest in DC. Why is this the first time they were able to get into the Capitol while in session?
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    Wasn't a protest, it was an attempt at a coup. And the president set the game to easy level.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      > attempt at a coup You have a very very low bar for what you think an attempted coup was.
      - rhino369 6y ago
        Who knows what Trump was attempting. He should definitely be investigated. But the riot was a riot. There was no organization and no attempt to take the government and rule it. It was vandalism.
      - Gibbon1 6y ago
        Chased congress out their chambers while they were preparing to certify the next president. Murdered a police officer in the process. Your definition of a low bar different than mine.
  - rhino369 6y ago
    Typically they don't try to. But people have gotten into the capitol to interrupt things before. Five Congressmen were shot by Puerto Rican nationalists on the floor of the house in the 50s. Protestors interrupt things fairly often. Happened during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings and again during the vote. This is probably the most overwhelmed the Capitol has been since the British captured it.
Reedx 6y ago
The Capitol Police seem to be a facade and don't stop crowds. Here's a different example from 2 years ago: "@womensmarch just took the Capitol. Women, survivors, and allies walked straight past the police, climbed over barricades, and sat down on the Capitol steps." https://twitter.com/EgSophie/status/1048634940169048064 https://twitter.com/EgSophie/status/1048634940169048064
- zaroth 6y ago
  This Twitter thread is a gold mine for anyone looking for perspective on what happens when the “right” group versus the “wrong” group storms past baracades and into the Capital, while describing it as “taking the Capital”.
elihu 6y ago
It's also possible they were competent but don't have the required staff to handle a large protest. Under normal circumstances, they might request help from other groups (DC police, national guard, whatever) but due to jurisdictional restrictions help can't come unless it's approved at high levels and no approvals were given. In other words, they may have been set up to fail. (There's still the issue of that video of protesters being let in, which would imply that capital police do have some explaining to do.)

amyjess 6y ago

They took selfies with the insurrectionists. They were complicit.

djsumdog 6y ago
> insurrectionists Peaceful protestors. Were the BLM people who stormed city hall in Seattle insurrectionists? Where the Black Panthers who took the California State Capitol in the 1970s insurrectionists? Stop with the bullshit name games. These were not rioters. They didn't set anything on fire. They should not have stolen or broken anything. That's wrong and bad and should be condemned. Those people should get federal time But man...you have to admit...there is something beautiful about the peasants entering the royal court, and the town idiot putting his feet up on the table that belongs to the Hand of the King. The villagers entered the royal court and the senators clutched their pearls. America has had a long history of occupying federal buildings. This is certainly not unprecedented. These people were not a coup or insurrection. They had no plan. There was no person with a new founding document they were going to read. They didn't bring in an armed force and take and occupy the capital. The overreaction to what happened is fucking insane, especially compared to what actual Rioters where allowed to get away with for the past year. In May, DC was literally on fire from the BLM riots, and we didn't see this type of DoubleSpeak.
- amyjess 6y ago
  Storming the capitol to stop the certification of an election whose result t hey didn't like is the very definition of an attempted coup d'etat. They had zip ties meant for the purpose of taking hostages: https://twitter.com/Adiscen/status/1347189171362918400 https://twitter.com/Adiscen/status/1347189171362918400 IEDs were found at the DNC and RNC: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/pipe-bomb-rnc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/pipe-bomb-rnc... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/abc-news-exclusive-photo-suspected-explosive-device-found/story?id=75105481 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/abc-news-exclusive-photo-sus...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    They were let in. The guy with the zip ties is likely an undercover agent.
- dvirsky 6y ago
  People planted pipe bombs in the capitol building. Wow, such peaceful, much protest.
- g8oz 6y ago
  Some were armed and an IED was found. I recommend avoiding identity protective cognition when analyzing these events.
- jquery 6y ago
  > But man...you have to admit...there is something beautiful about the peasants entering the royal court, and the town idiot putting his feet up on the table that belongs to the Hand of the King. >The villagers entered the royal court and the senators clutched their pearls. I agree. Although I’m definitely anti-Trump and condemn his garbage about the election being stolen, and while I don’t condone the behavior of the protestors, I don’t really see how this so much worse than business owners who had their livelihoods destroyed during the BLM riots over the summer. I don’t remember CNN or Democrats tripping over themselves to see who could use the harshest language for what had happened. Again I’m not condoning this, but honestly, given what happened, the only real tragedy was a woman was shot because a jumpy police officer shot blindly into a crowd. Our pride was embarrassed but that’s ok. Let’s learn from this and make sure it doesn’t happen again. The real problem with what happened is Trump incited it. But that’s another story.
  - rubycon22 6y ago
    Haha yeah, there wasn't this much outrage before because it was the peasant's businesses being destroyed. Protesting is now bad because it actually affected the rich, political class. Look at how different the MSM response was. Destroyed businesses and disruption to innocent people's lives was a necessary sacrifice for BLM riots. And best of all, covid is only dangerous depending on what you're protesting for. But some people going into a building?! No! Stop that!
    - vsssk 6y ago
      I don't understand how people can confidently draw such equivalencies. Just looking at the frequency of the two types of events. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_racial_violence_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_racial_violence_in_the_Un... How many is that? I can't even count. More than 50, less than 100? Versus 10, possibly way less, depending on what kind of comparisons one wants to draw? [1] Doesn't this point exactly to the significance of what happened on the 6th? Race riots have been happening in the United States for a hundred some years. They are obviously not significant in achieving the goals of the rioters. Meanwhile the storming of seats of power by an ousted leaders' supporters has the potential to change history. The former is a passing event, the latter is a rare event with some potential to change global history. [1] https://www.livescience.com/political-violence-us-capital.html https://www.livescience.com/political-violence-us-capital.ht...
- Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
  > Were the BLM people who stormed city hall in Seattle insurrectionists? Where the Black Panthers who took the California State Capitol in the 1970s insurrectionists? No, because their goal wasn't to overturn a legally held election. > They had no plan. You got that part right.
  - zaroth 6y ago
    > No, because their goal wasn't to overturn a legally held election. When BLM stormed and occupied the city hall in Seattle, their primary demand was to remove the mayor. https://youtu.be/aA1GHvHzy8M https://youtu.be/aA1GHvHzy8M “Hey hey. Ho ho. Jenny Durkan’s got to go!”
- optical 6y ago
  > The overreaction to what happened is fucking insane, especially compared to what actual Rioters where allowed to get away with for the past year. In May, DC was literally on fire from the BLM riots, and we didn't see this type of DoubleSpeak. Not really when you consider that the protests in may were for the correct side with the media and elites fully on board. They were for all intents and purposes sanctioned events. The 6th mob was absolutely terrifying for the media and elite since they had zero control over it. What looks like just another mob riot to a common peasant appears to be an actual threat to those which never see threats.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  > The overreaction ... In May, DC was literally on fire from the BLM riots Speaking of overreactions ... > They didn't set anything on fire. They should not have stolen or broken anything. That's wrong and bad and should be condemned. Okay, so to be clear, there's a difference between breaking things with your hands and setting it on fire. One is "bad", and one is "rioting". Huh, interesting.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  Black Panthers were literally insurrectionists and wore that badge with pride.
kelchqvjpnfasjl 6y ago
I could pull up pictures of police kneeling with BLM this summer.
- amyjess 6y ago
  Inviting insurrectionists into the capitol to stop the certification of an election they didn't like by force is different from... giving their support to people who are against unarmed black people being murdered on sight.
- Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
  Yeah, they kneeled for the photo op, then deployed tear gas an hour later.
  - kelchqvjpnfasjl 6y ago
    Deploying tear gas like they did in the Capitol here: https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/status/1346948665013751809 https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/status/1346948665013751809 https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss/status/1346948866868977672 https://twitter.com/RichieMcGinniss/status/13469488668689776... https://twitter.com/KathrynDiss/status/1346947617893265421 https://twitter.com/KathrynDiss/status/1346947617893265421 I saw a video yesterday of tear gas being used inside the capitol building but today I was only able to find videos of when it was used outside.

cperciva 6y ago

They were understaffed, and it was clear that they could not protect both the building and the people. They correctly prioritized evacuating the people.

callmeal 6y ago
>They were understaffed, and it was clear that they could not protect both the building and the people. They correctly prioritized evacuating the people. I think it's pretty clear at this point that they would have been overstaffed if the protestors had a different skin color.
- opinion-is-bad 6y ago
  I don’t think that’s clear at all. I’ve seen it often repeated by the media, but there is absolutely no evidence to support it. Repeating this is only driving the two sides further apart.
- tclancy 6y ago
  Username checks out -- if you can't see this to be obvious based on this summer, one of us is struggling with reality.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  > different skin color. In the 1970s, armed Black Panther members took the California State Capitol and no one died. At least one officer is dead (this changes daily so who knows) and one protestor (she was unarmed, that's a protestor, trespasser at best) was shot by sorry excuse of a Capitol Officer who shot wildly into a crowd (almost hitting the other Federal Officer behind her!) Please stop making this about race.
  - deathgrips 6y ago
    You're not a protester if you are breaking into congress, breaking past a barricade, being told to stop, and walking towards an officer pointing his gun at you. You're suicidal.

trophycase 6y ago

Something isn't right? Perhaps that nearly half of the elected officials present were either complicit or actively encouraging what happened?

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago

I wonder if, since so many on HN feel that they are enlightened people, it is possible for us to give the benefit of the doubt to people who's jobs we don't do and probably know nothing about? Just because we work in tech does not mean we know everything, and not having been there means we don't know the circumstances anyway. It is disgustingly arrogant of any of us to proclaim that these people must be incompetent or complicit like some armchair quarterback. Christ, I mean, this is roughly the same mentality as the people who think the election was stolen based on some anecdotes and bullshit despite what election officials, courts, and other experts are saying.

bnralt 6y ago
Indeed, the hyperbole and conspiracy theories on all sides have lead me to detach myself from politics. There were a few hundred/thousand people who rioted at the Capitol, law enforcement in riot gear fought them with clubs and pepper spray, got overwhelmed, fell back, regrouped, and responded with a lot of force a couple hours later. One of the rioters was shot, dozens were arrested. Not a good scenario, but I've seen a lot of people who I had thought were more measured yelling about how police were assisting with an attempted coup attempt (even supposedly respected news stations were going off the deep end). It feels like the 24/7 news cycle has fried a lot of people's minds and turned everything into a final battle between good and evil.
Fauntleroy 6y ago
If it's any consolation, US Capitol Police chief Steve Sund was forced to resign by Congress. Seems like it's not just armchair quarterbacks who were let down by their shitty response.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  No doubt you are aware of the concept of a face-saving resignation. I'm not saying this is what happened here, I'm just saying the resignation itself is not really meaningful without more context.

smnth 6y ago

200 - 300k is hilarious, 20 - 30k is much closer to a reasonable guess.

rayiner 6y ago

The Capitol Police generally don’t (and aren’t equipped to) repel a mob entering the building. That wasn’t just for this event. It’s always like this. Trump’s “show of force” during the BLM protests (where he brought in the national guard) was an aberration for that reason.

chrisco255 6y ago
This isn't the first mass protest in DC. Why is this the first time they were able to get into the Capitol while in session?
- Gibbon1 6y ago
  Wasn't a protest, it was an attempt at a coup. And the president set the game to easy level.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    > attempt at a coup You have a very very low bar for what you think an attempted coup was.
    - rhino369 6y ago
      Who knows what Trump was attempting. He should definitely be investigated. But the riot was a riot. There was no organization and no attempt to take the government and rule it. It was vandalism.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      Chased congress out their chambers while they were preparing to certify the next president. Murdered a police officer in the process. Your definition of a low bar different than mine.
- rhino369 6y ago
  Typically they don't try to. But people have gotten into the capitol to interrupt things before. Five Congressmen were shot by Puerto Rican nationalists on the floor of the house in the 50s. Protestors interrupt things fairly often. Happened during the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings and again during the vote. This is probably the most overwhelmed the Capitol has been since the British captured it.

Reedx 6y ago

The Capitol Police seem to be a facade and don't stop crowds. Here's a different example from 2 years ago: "@womensmarch just took the Capitol. Women, survivors, and allies walked straight past the police, climbed over barricades, and sat down on the Capitol steps." https://twitter.com/EgSophie/status/1048634940169048064 https://twitter.com/EgSophie/status/1048634940169048064

zaroth 6y ago
This Twitter thread is a gold mine for anyone looking for perspective on what happens when the “right” group versus the “wrong” group storms past baracades and into the Capital, while describing it as “taking the Capital”.

elihu 6y ago

It's also possible they were competent but don't have the required staff to handle a large protest. Under normal circumstances, they might request help from other groups (DC police, national guard, whatever) but due to jurisdictional restrictions help can't come unless it's approved at high levels and no approvals were given. In other words, they may have been set up to fail. (There's still the issue of that video of protesters being let in, which would imply that capital police do have some explaining to do.)