14 ms·

So even the small electronic components are locked in after the vehicle passes crash testing? That seems weird, I wouldn't have thought that the IC you use on t

by taneq 6y ago

So even the small electronic components are locked in after the vehicle passes crash testing? That seems weird, I wouldn't have thought that the IC you use on the indicator modules (say) would affect the crashworthiness, especially if you're replacing like with like.

edwinbalani 6y ago
Crash testing will be part of a wider testing plan. The logic there is that you have shown all the tests to pass using that particular hardware+software configuration. Only that configuration (and any future ones you put through testing, verification and validation) is what you're allowed to ship to customers. (I work in a regulated environment, but not automotive, and we run into the same barriers, often for even minor changes. We work agile, but changes will get released in planned batches every few months, rather than shipping instantly. For automotive, I'm guessing their update cadence would be every model year.)
colechristensen 6y ago
And if the IC on the indicator gets changed out and the new one causes interference which leads to the airbags not deploying in a crash? Building things which can have small defects that kill people is just a different game.
- throwaway201103 6y ago
  Yet we allow people to replace almost any part on the car themeselves, with varying grades of quality made by aftermarket or OE manufacturers. Brakes, suspension components, body panels, electical components, etc. purchased from Amazon and made somewhere in China. Once it's in the customer's hands, it seems a lot of those rules go out the window.
  - benibela 6y ago
    In Germany you are not allowed to change the car E.g. there are these additinonal brake lights one could place at the top of the rear window. For a long time it was illegal to use them, even if you just glued them on the inside
  - porknubbins 6y ago
    As someone who has worked on cars and motorcycles seems ok to me. Most failed aftermarket modifications will be like random DNA changes- no affect, a purely cosmetic affect, or a dead machine. And risks are mostly to the driver so there is an incentive not to mess up.
  - sangnoir 6y ago
    It's not difficult for me to get the difference: manufacturers' actions can kill thousands of people by subjecting them to additional risk without them knowing. Individuals have a right to subject themselves to risk. The food industry is regulated to avoid food contamination or food poisoning - but there are no laws against eating mouldy food in your fridge if you want to; that is on you. Obviously, if the aftermarket product puts other people at risk, then the consumer who did the modification would be legally liable
seabird 6y ago
These things aren't microservices for a dating app that is going to fold in two years. The core of working in any safety-critical field is strict empiricism. You have to accept how little you know and not believe anything you haven't seen with your own eyes (and even then, it's wise to distrust what you've seen). To believe that you have predicted all of the thousands of scenarios that will arise out of "just one small change" and forego testing is a good way to surprise somebody an early trip to the pearly gates.
- wiz21c 6y ago
  that's so humbling. real cool. I should work there !
londons_explore 6y ago
It would seem not all car manufacturers are so strict...[1]. Some have no issues to use tape and some hardware store components in a pinch to keep production running. Theres no way they put that through crash testing... [1]: https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/the-tesla-model-y-has-bizarre-fake-wood-on-the-edges-of-its-condenser/ https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/the-tesla-model-y-has-biza...

by taneq 6y ago

edwinbalani 6y ago

Crash testing will be part of a wider testing plan. The logic there is that you have shown all the tests to pass using that particular hardware+software configuration. Only that configuration (and any future ones you put through testing, verification and validation) is what you're allowed to ship to customers. (I work in a regulated environment, but not automotive, and we run into the same barriers, often for even minor changes. We work agile, but changes will get released in planned batches every few months, rather than shipping instantly. For automotive, I'm guessing their update cadence would be every model year.)

colechristensen 6y ago

And if the IC on the indicator gets changed out and the new one causes interference which leads to the airbags not deploying in a crash? Building things which can have small defects that kill people is just a different game.

throwaway201103 6y ago
Yet we allow people to replace almost any part on the car themeselves, with varying grades of quality made by aftermarket or OE manufacturers. Brakes, suspension components, body panels, electical components, etc. purchased from Amazon and made somewhere in China. Once it's in the customer's hands, it seems a lot of those rules go out the window.
- benibela 6y ago
  In Germany you are not allowed to change the car E.g. there are these additinonal brake lights one could place at the top of the rear window. For a long time it was illegal to use them, even if you just glued them on the inside
- porknubbins 6y ago
  As someone who has worked on cars and motorcycles seems ok to me. Most failed aftermarket modifications will be like random DNA changes- no affect, a purely cosmetic affect, or a dead machine. And risks are mostly to the driver so there is an incentive not to mess up.
- sangnoir 6y ago
  It's not difficult for me to get the difference: manufacturers' actions can kill thousands of people by subjecting them to additional risk without them knowing. Individuals have a right to subject themselves to risk. The food industry is regulated to avoid food contamination or food poisoning - but there are no laws against eating mouldy food in your fridge if you want to; that is on you. Obviously, if the aftermarket product puts other people at risk, then the consumer who did the modification would be legally liable

seabird 6y ago

These things aren't microservices for a dating app that is going to fold in two years. The core of working in any safety-critical field is strict empiricism. You have to accept how little you know and not believe anything you haven't seen with your own eyes (and even then, it's wise to distrust what you've seen). To believe that you have predicted all of the thousands of scenarios that will arise out of "just one small change" and forego testing is a good way to surprise somebody an early trip to the pearly gates.

wiz21c 6y ago
that's so humbling. real cool. I should work there !

londons_explore 6y ago

It would seem not all car manufacturers are so strict...[1]. Some have no issues to use tape and some hardware store components in a pinch to keep production running. Theres no way they put that through crash testing... [1]: https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/the-tesla-model-y-has-bizarre-fake-wood-on-the-edges-of-its-condenser/ https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/the-tesla-model-y-has-biza...