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But that is the thing. WhatsApp used to be a payed app, and the promise was that they would never sell our use your data for adds. Then they sold to Facebook an

by tapia 6y ago

But that is the thing. WhatsApp used to be a payed app, and the promise was that they would never sell our use your data for adds. Then they sold to Facebook and broke that promise. I used to pay for WhatsApp because I believed them then. And it got big because of many people did that too. That is the thing that I found the most insulting about WhatsApp now.

jariel 6y ago
"Then they sold to Facebook and broke that promise." This is really a false narrative. The 'sell out' was the 'sale to Facebook'. A business is not really going to necessarily keep that kind of promise, they are going to do what's best for them - that's why they made the acquisition. This idea that the WA founders could somehow hold Zuck to that 'promise' is fantasty. They are not naive, they knew what they were doing. Not only did they know there was nothing they could do otherwise, but that there would be an existential pull from FB to push for data sharing that would be unavoidable. The 'moral high ground' that the founders tried to take in public is really kind of despicable, because they knew exactly the cards in play when they sold. If the 'promise' was to do with branding, or something secondary, but fine. But you don't sell drugs to a drug dealer with the promise that the dealer won't deal drugs. Anyhow, we are where we are. People should fork over $1 month for chat. It would make a big difference.
- ubercow13 6y ago
  You seem to be contradicting yourself - that is was never a good idea to believe their promise and pay for their chat service, but that also this problem would be solved if everyone paid for a chat service.
  - jariel 6y ago
    Those are not contradictions. 1) A sale to an advertising company will result in WA data being used for Ad sales, there's no reason to believe otherwise. 2) Paid apps would be ideal for privacy, but I didn't imply that people were necessarily willing to pay for it. The problem frankly is not 'Facebook' it's us. We want 'all the privacy' for 'free'. If we paid a small amount, we could have privacy because there'd be an underlying supportable business model.
    - ubercow13 6y ago
      Right but WhatsApp was a paid app. There is no reason to believe that paid apps are ideal for privacy - WhatsApp is the perfect counterexample. So we need a different solution, or direct payment at leasts needs to be one part of a larger solution.

by tapia 6y ago

jariel 6y ago

"Then they sold to Facebook and broke that promise." This is really a false narrative. The 'sell out' was the 'sale to Facebook'. A business is not really going to necessarily keep that kind of promise, they are going to do what's best for them - that's why they made the acquisition. This idea that the WA founders could somehow hold Zuck to that 'promise' is fantasty. They are not naive, they knew what they were doing. Not only did they know there was nothing they could do otherwise, but that there would be an existential pull from FB to push for data sharing that would be unavoidable. The 'moral high ground' that the founders tried to take in public is really kind of despicable, because they knew exactly the cards in play when they sold. If the 'promise' was to do with branding, or something secondary, but fine. But you don't sell drugs to a drug dealer with the promise that the dealer won't deal drugs. Anyhow, we are where we are. People should fork over $1 month for chat. It would make a big difference.

ubercow13 6y ago
You seem to be contradicting yourself - that is was never a good idea to believe their promise and pay for their chat service, but that also this problem would be solved if everyone paid for a chat service.
- jariel 6y ago
  Those are not contradictions. 1) A sale to an advertising company will result in WA data being used for Ad sales, there's no reason to believe otherwise. 2) Paid apps would be ideal for privacy, but I didn't imply that people were necessarily willing to pay for it. The problem frankly is not 'Facebook' it's us. We want 'all the privacy' for 'free'. If we paid a small amount, we could have privacy because there'd be an underlying supportable business model.
  - ubercow13 6y ago
    Right but WhatsApp was a paid app. There is no reason to believe that paid apps are ideal for privacy - WhatsApp is the perfect counterexample. So we need a different solution, or direct payment at leasts needs to be one part of a larger solution.