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Don't start selling your sperm on a FB group without a good lawyer -- you may accidentally make yourself a legal guardian and be required to pay child support.

Don't start selling your sperm on a FB group without a good lawyer -- you may accidentally make yourself a legal guardian and be required to pay child support. Don't start buying sperm without a good lawyer either. In some states, the sperm donor may legally request custody or visitation rights. Family law is different in each state, making this a thorny issue. For example, Arizona's law states that a surrogate mother is the presumed mother of any baby she births. And if she's married to a man, her husband is the father. Making a contract that says otherwise in Arizona is not legally recognized. So... very few people choose surrogates in Arizona.

aidenn0 6y ago
Surrogacy and sperm donation aside, in many states, the husband is legally the father, even if a paternity test shows otherwise, leading to men who divorce their cheating spouses being on the hook for financially supporting the result of the affair.
- thisisnico 6y ago
  That is truly a nightmare situation that would drive me to suicide. I couldn't imagine a more horrible situation to be in.
  - jdeibele 6y ago
    It seems like a terrible situation to me. My wife, who's an attorney, says that the law is for the benefit of the child. Better to have somebody helping pay child support as well as the mother. Those laws were passed before DNA testing. It seems like they could be updated for that.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      > Better to have somebody helping pay child support as well as the mother. I think a better solution is taxpayers shouldering the burden than punishing an innocent individual (actually a victim).
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - birdyrooster 6y ago
    Really? Wouldn’t it be better to flee the country than die?
  - mordechai9000 6y ago
    Leaving the legal issues out of it, if you were acting in the role of a parent, would you just abandon a child if you found out you're not biologically the father? Like one day you're taking them to sports, reading them bedtime stories, cuddling, all that stuff, the next day you just have nothing to do with them?
    - ky3 6y ago
      To answer obliquely: I observe some men to rage for vengeance at being cuckolded. Subsequently, in an episode of repeat impotence, the bullets rebound on the shooters. Example: the father may take drugs to relieve the pain. Said father may invite the child to join him, setting up the child for life.
  - athms 6y ago
    If you are in Michigan and a mother names you as the father for welfare benefits, you most likely will be forced to pay it. There have been many instances of men being declared fathers by default. One man had won a court settlement when he was young and the woman applying for benefits remembered reading about him in the paper, so she put his name and address on the application to get the money. The court ordered him to start paying child support. He tried to fight it in court with a DNA test, but you need to serve the mother and neither the court nor the social welfare agency would release her address.
- Fezzik 6y ago
  In what states is this true? I’m pretty sure it’s not true in any US state the way you have it stated. There is a rebuttable presumption that a husband is the biological father to a child born during wedlock (or a child born within 300 days after divorce, in Oregon, as an example). Disestablishing paternity once you have a DNA test is an easy matter, and DCS (Department of Child Support) will do the disestablishing for you if there is an issue where a mother is seeking child support. Source: I establish/disestablish fathers all the time as part of my job... this is not legal advise.
  - aidenn0 6y ago
    A quick search shows that many states have changed their stances either through precedent or legislation over the past 20 years or so, so my information may be out of date. The California court's website states that cohabiting spouses is a conclusive presumption[1] and the exceptions to overturning are very limited, even with genetic testing. I'm not a lawyer and can't easily research precedent, but the law seems pretty clear that if you don't challenge before the 2nd birthday of the child, it can't be overturned. There may be other restrictions as well. It seems like recent anecdotes I can find relate to the 2 year deadline. The father didn't challenge paternity at the time of divorce, found out he was not biological father (or that he could challenge) later, but it was too late. Hopefully we can all agree it would be shitty to disown a kid you've been raising for years because you found out you weren't the biological father, but I can certainly have empathy for someone who has limited (or no) visitation and is stuck shelling out money for someone else's kid. [edit] It looks like the law was revised recently as well, so amybe the court website is out of date on some of this? AB2684 mentions "rebuttable presumptions" and was passed in 2018, going into effect in 2019. IANAL and don't have time to follow up on this. 1: https://www.courts.ca.gov/1202.htm https://www.courts.ca.gov/1202.htm
    - dhimes 6y ago
      I think it's a result of the men's rights movement or something similar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_rights_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_rights_movement
rootsudo 6y ago
This is interesting, and I wonder how a surrogate marketplace would fare in the likes of like airbnb... And I wonder also, if it'd be deemed undesirable to be able to pick and choose traits and prototypes.. All in all, fun conversation, and makes me want to read Brave New World again.

aidenn0 6y ago

Surrogacy and sperm donation aside, in many states, the husband is legally the father, even if a paternity test shows otherwise, leading to men who divorce their cheating spouses being on the hook for financially supporting the result of the affair.

thisisnico 6y ago
That is truly a nightmare situation that would drive me to suicide. I couldn't imagine a more horrible situation to be in.
- jdeibele 6y ago
  It seems like a terrible situation to me. My wife, who's an attorney, says that the law is for the benefit of the child. Better to have somebody helping pay child support as well as the mother. Those laws were passed before DNA testing. It seems like they could be updated for that.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > Better to have somebody helping pay child support as well as the mother. I think a better solution is taxpayers shouldering the burden than punishing an innocent individual (actually a victim).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- birdyrooster 6y ago
  Really? Wouldn’t it be better to flee the country than die?
- mordechai9000 6y ago
  Leaving the legal issues out of it, if you were acting in the role of a parent, would you just abandon a child if you found out you're not biologically the father? Like one day you're taking them to sports, reading them bedtime stories, cuddling, all that stuff, the next day you just have nothing to do with them?
  - ky3 6y ago
    To answer obliquely: I observe some men to rage for vengeance at being cuckolded. Subsequently, in an episode of repeat impotence, the bullets rebound on the shooters. Example: the father may take drugs to relieve the pain. Said father may invite the child to join him, setting up the child for life.
- athms 6y ago
  If you are in Michigan and a mother names you as the father for welfare benefits, you most likely will be forced to pay it. There have been many instances of men being declared fathers by default. One man had won a court settlement when he was young and the woman applying for benefits remembered reading about him in the paper, so she put his name and address on the application to get the money. The court ordered him to start paying child support. He tried to fight it in court with a DNA test, but you need to serve the mother and neither the court nor the social welfare agency would release her address.
Fezzik 6y ago
In what states is this true? I’m pretty sure it’s not true in any US state the way you have it stated. There is a rebuttable presumption that a husband is the biological father to a child born during wedlock (or a child born within 300 days after divorce, in Oregon, as an example). Disestablishing paternity once you have a DNA test is an easy matter, and DCS (Department of Child Support) will do the disestablishing for you if there is an issue where a mother is seeking child support. Source: I establish/disestablish fathers all the time as part of my job... this is not legal advise.
- aidenn0 6y ago
  A quick search shows that many states have changed their stances either through precedent or legislation over the past 20 years or so, so my information may be out of date. The California court's website states that cohabiting spouses is a conclusive presumption[1] and the exceptions to overturning are very limited, even with genetic testing. I'm not a lawyer and can't easily research precedent, but the law seems pretty clear that if you don't challenge before the 2nd birthday of the child, it can't be overturned. There may be other restrictions as well. It seems like recent anecdotes I can find relate to the 2 year deadline. The father didn't challenge paternity at the time of divorce, found out he was not biological father (or that he could challenge) later, but it was too late. Hopefully we can all agree it would be shitty to disown a kid you've been raising for years because you found out you weren't the biological father, but I can certainly have empathy for someone who has limited (or no) visitation and is stuck shelling out money for someone else's kid. [edit] It looks like the law was revised recently as well, so amybe the court website is out of date on some of this? AB2684 mentions "rebuttable presumptions" and was passed in 2018, going into effect in 2019. IANAL and don't have time to follow up on this. 1: https://www.courts.ca.gov/1202.htm https://www.courts.ca.gov/1202.htm
  - dhimes 6y ago
    I think it's a result of the men's rights movement or something similar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_rights_movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_rights_movement

rootsudo 6y ago

This is interesting, and I wonder how a surrogate marketplace would fare in the likes of like airbnb... And I wonder also, if it'd be deemed undesirable to be able to pick and choose traits and prototypes.. All in all, fun conversation, and makes me want to read Brave New World again.