3 ms·

These stories JetBrains is defending against are sadly what passes as "Jounalism" in our society.

compil3 6y ago
That's why the laws that protect them need to be either changed or revoked. JetBrains should have 100% legal ability to sue the New York Times for slander.
- andrewem 6y ago
  The UK had laws which were much more favorable to people who sue alleging slander or libel, and they caused significant problems which led to their being substantially changed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law Edit to note: the kinds of changes you’re suggesting seem great when the plaintiff is a small company suing the New York Times, but what about when a very large company sues a small newspaper or blog?
- protomyth 6y ago
  New York Times Co. v. Sullivan is the case that pretty much prevents that unless it is beyond blatant. A decision or law to tighten the scope that decision would probably improve the public discourse dramatically in an era where the correction never comes close to the distribution of the original lie.
  - aNoob7000 6y ago
    The problem is newspapers and journalists would be killed with a change in the law, and let TV "news" commentators like Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow to continue saying whatever they want. The problem is that the line between news and commentary at this time is blurred. Hell; we can't even agree on what is true anymore just look no further than the election fraud claims made by the President of the United States.
    - protomyth 6y ago
      I would be more sympathetic to newspapers and journalists if they were neutral observers, but as you say, the line between news and commentary is blurred and it seems everyone in media has picked a side. I think forcing these papers to do some basic fact checking would slow down the "must report first and damn the facts" mentality. The thinning or elimination of the fact checking people was the canary in the coal mine.
  - solidasparagus 6y ago
    Not really, it would just put the onus of deciding the truth onto the court systems, which doesn't sound great. JetBrains can't prove they weren't the underlying vulnerability so I have a hard time seeing any world where they would be able to successfully sue The New York Times here.
  - jjk166 6y ago
    NYT v Sullivan is only relevant to public officials - those holding or running for public office, which adds for them the requirement to prove 'actual malice.' In subsequent cases, the requirement has been expanded to employees of public officials as well as public figures - those who "achieve persistent fame and notoriety" and those who voluntarily engage in public controversy. In either case, the owners of a small company who have not voluntarily placed themselves in the public eye would be generally considered private individuals and thus the restriction on suing the media for defamation would not apply. In lower courts there has developed some concept of an involuntary public figure. These are people who don't go out of their way to enter the public spotlight but who are involved in an event of overriding societal importance. So for example people being investigated by a government agency major crimes can't sue for defamation after being found not guilty. If JetBrains is actually under investigation then it's fair game, but if not it likely is still a private figure and this would be a pretty good example of a valid defamation case.
- VHRanger 6y ago
  If the NYT caused their valuation to crash then they have a case

That's why the laws that protect them need to be either changed or revoked. JetBrains should have 100% legal ability to sue the New York Times for slander.

andrewem 6y ago
The UK had laws which were much more favorable to people who sue alleging slander or libel, and they caused significant problems which led to their being substantially changed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law Edit to note: the kinds of changes you’re suggesting seem great when the plaintiff is a small company suing the New York Times, but what about when a very large company sues a small newspaper or blog?
protomyth 6y ago
New York Times Co. v. Sullivan is the case that pretty much prevents that unless it is beyond blatant. A decision or law to tighten the scope that decision would probably improve the public discourse dramatically in an era where the correction never comes close to the distribution of the original lie.
- aNoob7000 6y ago
  The problem is newspapers and journalists would be killed with a change in the law, and let TV "news" commentators like Tucker Carlson and Rachel Maddow to continue saying whatever they want. The problem is that the line between news and commentary at this time is blurred. Hell; we can't even agree on what is true anymore just look no further than the election fraud claims made by the President of the United States.
  - protomyth 6y ago
    I would be more sympathetic to newspapers and journalists if they were neutral observers, but as you say, the line between news and commentary is blurred and it seems everyone in media has picked a side. I think forcing these papers to do some basic fact checking would slow down the "must report first and damn the facts" mentality. The thinning or elimination of the fact checking people was the canary in the coal mine.
- solidasparagus 6y ago
  Not really, it would just put the onus of deciding the truth onto the court systems, which doesn't sound great. JetBrains can't prove they weren't the underlying vulnerability so I have a hard time seeing any world where they would be able to successfully sue The New York Times here.
- jjk166 6y ago
  NYT v Sullivan is only relevant to public officials - those holding or running for public office, which adds for them the requirement to prove 'actual malice.' In subsequent cases, the requirement has been expanded to employees of public officials as well as public figures - those who "achieve persistent fame and notoriety" and those who voluntarily engage in public controversy. In either case, the owners of a small company who have not voluntarily placed themselves in the public eye would be generally considered private individuals and thus the restriction on suing the media for defamation would not apply. In lower courts there has developed some concept of an involuntary public figure. These are people who don't go out of their way to enter the public spotlight but who are involved in an event of overriding societal importance. So for example people being investigated by a government agency major crimes can't sue for defamation after being found not guilty. If JetBrains is actually under investigation then it's fair game, but if not it likely is still a private figure and this would be a pretty good example of a valid defamation case.
VHRanger 6y ago
If the NYT caused their valuation to crash then they have a case