3 ms·

Your frothing at the mouth hyperbole aside... I'm not a Republican, I'm not even an American, and I see a lot of issues with how this election was conducted. Ma

Your frothing at the mouth hyperbole aside... I'm not a Republican, I'm not even an American, and I see a lot of issues with how this election was conducted. Maybe you don't, or don't want to. Maybe the end justifies the means. But when the shoe is on the other foot, remember this garbage you just posted to HN before you start crying foul. If I was an American I'd want to be confident in the election process. I don't know how one remains confident with videos of election observers being removed from counting areas to rousing applause, videos of counting areas being blocked off from observers using cardboard and other opaque barriers, video of ballots being counted after election observers had gone home for the night, hundreds of witnesses reporting irregularities, etc. The country I'm from isn't perfect when it comes to elections, either. But given its immense power in the world, I'm greatly concerned with what I've observed in the United States.

VikingCoder 6y ago
I'd like to discuss each objection, one at a time. Sound good? 1) Dominion voting machines changed counts. No, they did not. There was a hand recount in Georgia, and the counts matched within a reasonable degree. Are we done with that objection yet??? If not, please walk me through how we have not definitively resolved this issue. And that's my point - people KEEP RAISING THIS ISSUE. That means they are not listening to reason. It is unreasonable to mention Dominion Voting Machines in regard to Georgia. The issue has been settled. Continuing to raise it is proof of bad faith, rejecting clear evidence, without any new evidence that would make us re-evaluate the issue. If you care to move on to one next issue, may I recommend "video of ballots being counted after election observers had gone home for the night", which is very related to this first issue, and has similarly been resolved, and it's also unreasonable to keep raising it, for reasons I'd be glad to discuss.
- disgrunt 6y ago
  Ok, let's start with this forensic analysis of an actual Dominion voting machine that was used in the 2020 presidential election in Michigan. [0] [0]: https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20423772-antrim-county-forensics-report https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20423772-antrim-cou...
  - VikingCoder 6y ago
    How about the courts do it, instead?
    - disgrunt 6y ago
      And if not the courts, maybe Congress needs an Election Commission to investigate election irregularity claims?
      - VikingCoder 6y ago
        How about more funding for election security? Oh, that's right, Mitch McConnell wouldn't bring those bills before the Senate. [1] [1] https://www.courthousenews.com/mcconnell-under-fire-for-blocking-election-security-bills/ https://www.courthousenews.com/mcconnell-under-fire-for-bloc...
        disgrunt 6y ago
        And yet the mainstream media has cast him as the voice of reason in all of this mess. Hmm.
        VikingCoder 6y ago
        It's important to reward good behavior. If you'd like to see more divisiveness, just watch to see what McConnell says in the next 112 days.
notafraudster 6y ago
I am confident the shoe will not be on the other foot because I am not a conspiracy theorist and I do not believe in conspiracy theories. And also I have worked elections before so I understand the basics of how they work. I am also not an American. You are mostly referring to actual nonsense which was discussed and debunked in great detail in the over 100 post-election lawsuits that these doofuses lost. States (red and blue) and state officials responded to all of the criticisms in clear and convincing detail. Most of these boil down to the Republican party encouraging unqualified people to serve as poll watchers without training, and then whenever they didn't understand routine election processes they jumped to the conclusion there was a vast conspiracy against them. You obviously were able to internalize the criticisms via osmosis or via your choice of media diet, but somehow were able to avoid either being able to refute the criticisms from first principles or actually seeking evidence for them. One special note: Most of the observers removed were violating obvious and reasonable rules -- many of them were COVID deniers who felt if they couldn't breathe maskless on poll workers their first amendment rights were being suppressed. At the time, many were yelling "STOP THE COUNT", because the message of the night from the president on down was that it was illegal to count votes after polls closed. I used ZERO hyperbole in my original comment. I didn't even add any new information. All the stuff I said is documented in great detail in the lawsuit itself. It's not hyperbole to say the people being sued believe any of this. If there is something you believe is not literally true, let me know and I'll provide a source, but again the vast majority of this is directly documented in the suit that is the subject of this thread.
- disgrunt 6y ago
  The shoe was on the other foot in 2016. Many on the left claimed election fraud, including the Green Party filing lawsuits demanding recounts. Their disputes were with the same states in dispute in 2020 (Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin). [0] The courts dismissed their lawsuits for lack of standing, not on the merits of their case. In 2019, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobishar and Ron Wyden wrote a letter to Congress warning about vulnerabilities with three voting machine vendors, one of which being Dominion. They point out the same things that Sidney Pollock did in her complaint. [1] [0]: https://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/06/election-2016-recount-where-5-states-stand/95037554/ https://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/06/election-... [1]: https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobuchar-wyden-and-pocan-investigate-vulnerabilities-and-shortcomings-of-election-technology-industry-with-ties-to-private-equity https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobu...
archagon 6y ago
Frothing? Surely, you jest. This is the most level-headed and accurate description of the situation I've seen on this site.

VikingCoder 6y ago

I'd like to discuss each objection, one at a time. Sound good? 1) Dominion voting machines changed counts. No, they did not. There was a hand recount in Georgia, and the counts matched within a reasonable degree. Are we done with that objection yet??? If not, please walk me through how we have not definitively resolved this issue. And that's my point - people KEEP RAISING THIS ISSUE. That means they are not listening to reason. It is unreasonable to mention Dominion Voting Machines in regard to Georgia. The issue has been settled. Continuing to raise it is proof of bad faith, rejecting clear evidence, without any new evidence that would make us re-evaluate the issue. If you care to move on to one next issue, may I recommend "video of ballots being counted after election observers had gone home for the night", which is very related to this first issue, and has similarly been resolved, and it's also unreasonable to keep raising it, for reasons I'd be glad to discuss.

disgrunt 6y ago
Ok, let's start with this forensic analysis of an actual Dominion voting machine that was used in the 2020 presidential election in Michigan. [0] [0]: https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20423772-antrim-county-forensics-report https://beta.documentcloud.org/documents/20423772-antrim-cou...
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  How about the courts do it, instead?
  - disgrunt 6y ago
    And if not the courts, maybe Congress needs an Election Commission to investigate election irregularity claims?
    - VikingCoder 6y ago
      How about more funding for election security? Oh, that's right, Mitch McConnell wouldn't bring those bills before the Senate. [1] [1] https://www.courthousenews.com/mcconnell-under-fire-for-blocking-election-security-bills/ https://www.courthousenews.com/mcconnell-under-fire-for-bloc...
      - disgrunt 6y ago
        And yet the mainstream media has cast him as the voice of reason in all of this mess. Hmm.
        VikingCoder 6y ago
        It's important to reward good behavior. If you'd like to see more divisiveness, just watch to see what McConnell says in the next 112 days.

notafraudster 6y ago

I am confident the shoe will not be on the other foot because I am not a conspiracy theorist and I do not believe in conspiracy theories. And also I have worked elections before so I understand the basics of how they work. I am also not an American. You are mostly referring to actual nonsense which was discussed and debunked in great detail in the over 100 post-election lawsuits that these doofuses lost. States (red and blue) and state officials responded to all of the criticisms in clear and convincing detail. Most of these boil down to the Republican party encouraging unqualified people to serve as poll watchers without training, and then whenever they didn't understand routine election processes they jumped to the conclusion there was a vast conspiracy against them. You obviously were able to internalize the criticisms via osmosis or via your choice of media diet, but somehow were able to avoid either being able to refute the criticisms from first principles or actually seeking evidence for them. One special note: Most of the observers removed were violating obvious and reasonable rules -- many of them were COVID deniers who felt if they couldn't breathe maskless on poll workers their first amendment rights were being suppressed. At the time, many were yelling "STOP THE COUNT", because the message of the night from the president on down was that it was illegal to count votes after polls closed. I used ZERO hyperbole in my original comment. I didn't even add any new information. All the stuff I said is documented in great detail in the lawsuit itself. It's not hyperbole to say the people being sued believe any of this. If there is something you believe is not literally true, let me know and I'll provide a source, but again the vast majority of this is directly documented in the suit that is the subject of this thread.

disgrunt 6y ago
The shoe was on the other foot in 2016. Many on the left claimed election fraud, including the Green Party filing lawsuits demanding recounts. Their disputes were with the same states in dispute in 2020 (Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin). [0] The courts dismissed their lawsuits for lack of standing, not on the merits of their case. In 2019, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobishar and Ron Wyden wrote a letter to Congress warning about vulnerabilities with three voting machine vendors, one of which being Dominion. They point out the same things that Sidney Pollock did in her complaint. [1] [0]: https://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/06/election-2016-recount-where-5-states-stand/95037554/ https://www.freep.com/story/news/nation/2016/12/06/election-... [1]: https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobuchar-wyden-and-pocan-investigate-vulnerabilities-and-shortcomings-of-election-technology-industry-with-ties-to-private-equity https://www.warren.senate.gov/oversight/letters/warren-klobu...

archagon 6y ago

Frothing? Surely, you jest. This is the most level-headed and accurate description of the situation I've seen on this site.