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Please stop bringing up this "never roll your own crypto" argument. It's a guideline, not a hard rule. Signal actually rolled their own crypto and aren't consta

by dbrgn 6y ago

Please stop bringing up this "never roll your own crypto" argument. It's a guideline, not a hard rule. Signal actually rolled their own crypto and aren't constantly criticized for that, on the contrary. Signal is praised for rolling it's own crypto. Don't get me wrong, the Telegram crypto can (and should) definitely be criticized. But please criticize that they use "bad crypto" or "strange crypto" or "unreviewed crypto", not that it's their own. (And of course, substantiate such claims with references that can be discussed.)

maxerickson 6y ago
There's no need to continue litigating Telegram's crypto. (the criticisms are well enough known that people either aren't going to listen or can just go read them)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- costsNall 6y ago
  I’ve not heard of Telegram’s crypto criticisms, and I follow tech. Why would I know to just go read it? It’s almost as if your cognitive time series is not the same as everyone’s. (why the parens)?
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    Instead of Don't get me wrong, the Telegram crypto can (and should) definitely be criticized. But please criticize that they use "bad crypto" or "strange crypto" or "unreviewed crypto", not that it's their own. (And of course, substantiate such claims with references that can be discussed.) the people bringing it up can just provide you with a link to one of the many discussions of it.
ignoramous 6y ago
I am no expert, but "Signal rolling their own crypto" isn't the same as "X rolling their own crypto": 1. Folks spear-heading the Noise Protocol Framework (upon which Signal's protocol is based) are cryptographers [0]. 2. They built upon existing standards for one specific purpose: Creating two-way secure channels [1]. [0] https://signal.org/docs/ https://signal.org/docs/ [1] https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/3gipxdJ22iM https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/3gipxdJ22iM
- dbrgn 6y ago
  As far as I know, the Signal protocol was developed for TextSecure back in 2013. Noise actually references the Double Ratchet Algorithm by Moxie and Trevor Perrin as an inspiration. Not the other way around. At some point in time, all now well-established cryptographers will have developed their first own cryptosystem, without already having established a good reputation. Whether or not someone develops a cryptosystem without being famous for cryptography work is simply not a good argument for discussing a cryptosystem. The properties of a cryptosystem are a good argument for discussing it.

by dbrgn 6y ago

maxerickson 6y ago

There's no need to continue litigating Telegram's crypto. (the criticisms are well enough known that people either aren't going to listen or can just go read them)

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
costsNall 6y ago
I’ve not heard of Telegram’s crypto criticisms, and I follow tech. Why would I know to just go read it? It’s almost as if your cognitive time series is not the same as everyone’s. (why the parens)?
- maxerickson 6y ago
  Instead of Don't get me wrong, the Telegram crypto can (and should) definitely be criticized. But please criticize that they use "bad crypto" or "strange crypto" or "unreviewed crypto", not that it's their own. (And of course, substantiate such claims with references that can be discussed.) the people bringing it up can just provide you with a link to one of the many discussions of it.

ignoramous 6y ago

I am no expert, but "Signal rolling their own crypto" isn't the same as "X rolling their own crypto": 1. Folks spear-heading the Noise Protocol Framework (upon which Signal's protocol is based) are cryptographers [0]. 2. They built upon existing standards for one specific purpose: Creating two-way secure channels [1]. [0] https://signal.org/docs/ https://signal.org/docs/ [1] https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/3gipxdJ22iM https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/3gipxdJ22iM

dbrgn 6y ago
As far as I know, the Signal protocol was developed for TextSecure back in 2013. Noise actually references the Double Ratchet Algorithm by Moxie and Trevor Perrin as an inspiration. Not the other way around. At some point in time, all now well-established cryptographers will have developed their first own cryptosystem, without already having established a good reputation. Whether or not someone develops a cryptosystem without being famous for cryptography work is simply not a good argument for discussing a cryptosystem. The properties of a cryptosystem are a good argument for discussing it.