4 ms·

I’d imagine that dog domestication also depended on wolves being pack hunting carnivores. One can imagine there’s synergies between a group of humans and a pack

I’d imagine that dog domestication also depended on wolves being pack hunting carnivores. One can imagine there’s synergies between a group of humans and a pack of wolves hunting large game.

screye 6y ago
isn't that the main theory for Zebra vs Horse domestication? Heirarchichal structures in Animal societies is directly correlated to suitability for domestication.
- brmgb 6y ago
  Wild wolves are social but not particularly hierarchichal. A typical wolf pack is formed of a couple and their offsprings. Adult wolves leave the pack to form their own. The idea that wolf pack have complex fixed hierarchical structure is mostly a myth produced by inadequate research from Rudolph Schenkel on captive wolves and popularized by even more inadequate research and a book by L. David Mech. Mech then went on to do very good work on wild wolf. Wolves are however both social and used to complex interactions involving social dominance.
  - disown 6y ago
    > Wild wolves are social but not particularly hierarchichal. This is simply a lie. All wolf packs are strictly hierarchical. Meaning there is no wolf pack without a hierarchy. > A typical wolf pack is formed of a couple and their offsprings. Which forms a hierarchy. > The idea that wolf pack have complex fixed hierarchical structure Who said they had a "complex" "fixed" hierarchical structure? It's rather simple and obvious. > Wolves are however both social and used to complex interactions involving social dominance. "complex", "social dominance". Which is it? You say they don't have complex hierarchy and then claim complex interactions involving social dominance. What do you think social dominance exists to create? Wolf packs have hierarchy like human families have hierarchy.
    - brmgb 6y ago
      > This is simply a lie. All wolf packs are strictly hierarchical. Meaning there is no wolf pack without a hierarchy. Tone it down a bit. You should inform yourself. I gave you the name of the author to read, Mech, in my previous post. Wolf packs are not hierarchical. You have the parents leading because well they are the parents taking care of their offsprings and that's it. The rest of the group has no fixed hierarchy. > complex", "social dominance". Which is it? You say they don't have complex hierarchy and then claim complex interactions involving social dominance. Wolves have situational and individual dependants relationship some involving dominance. For example parents tend to harass their young when they approach the age of leaving. Some youngs situationaly fight other youngs but you can't establish a ranking of individual in a wild pack. That wouldn't make much sense. I have complex relationships with my friends. They sometimes involve dominance. Yet we don't have a hierarchy. > Wolf packs have hierarchy like human families have hierarchy. Human families don't have hierarchy. Young children are subordinate to their parents until they come of age, a bit like in a wolf pack actually. I am starting to understand your confusion.
      - disown 6y ago
        > Tone it down a bit. What was wrong with my tone? > You should inform yourself. I did and I am. "Wolfpacks are established according to a strict hierarchy, with a dominant male at the top and his mate not far behind." https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/g/gray-wolf/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/g/gray-wo... > I gave you the name of the author to read, Mech, in my previous post. I'm not going to read a book for this. That's so silly. If you are the one making an outrageous claim, cite the claims yourself. It's like you claiming that the earth is flat and then demanding I read some book to "inform" myself. > Some youngs situationaly fight other youngs but you can't establish a ranking of individual in a wild pack. Actually, the fighting is establishing a rank. > That wouldn't make much sense. Of course it makes sense. Just because you say it doesn't make sense don't make it true. > Human families don't have hierarchy. Yes we do. Parents at top and then kids ( pretty much by age ). Ever heard of patriarchy/matriarchy? > Young children are subordinate to their parents until they come of age Oh so there is a hierarchy? > I am starting to understand your confusion. I don't have any confusion. You are confused. You say there is no hierarchy and then use words describing a hierarchy.

I’d imagine that dog domestication also depended on wolves being pack hunting carnivores. One can imagine there’s synergies between a group of humans and a pack of wolves hunting large game.

screye 6y ago

isn't that the main theory for Zebra vs Horse domestication? Heirarchichal structures in Animal societies is directly correlated to suitability for domestication.

brmgb 6y ago
Wild wolves are social but not particularly hierarchichal. A typical wolf pack is formed of a couple and their offsprings. Adult wolves leave the pack to form their own. The idea that wolf pack have complex fixed hierarchical structure is mostly a myth produced by inadequate research from Rudolph Schenkel on captive wolves and popularized by even more inadequate research and a book by L. David Mech. Mech then went on to do very good work on wild wolf. Wolves are however both social and used to complex interactions involving social dominance.
- disown 6y ago
  > Wild wolves are social but not particularly hierarchichal. This is simply a lie. All wolf packs are strictly hierarchical. Meaning there is no wolf pack without a hierarchy. > A typical wolf pack is formed of a couple and their offsprings. Which forms a hierarchy. > The idea that wolf pack have complex fixed hierarchical structure Who said they had a "complex" "fixed" hierarchical structure? It's rather simple and obvious. > Wolves are however both social and used to complex interactions involving social dominance. "complex", "social dominance". Which is it? You say they don't have complex hierarchy and then claim complex interactions involving social dominance. What do you think social dominance exists to create? Wolf packs have hierarchy like human families have hierarchy.
  - brmgb 6y ago
    > This is simply a lie. All wolf packs are strictly hierarchical. Meaning there is no wolf pack without a hierarchy. Tone it down a bit. You should inform yourself. I gave you the name of the author to read, Mech, in my previous post. Wolf packs are not hierarchical. You have the parents leading because well they are the parents taking care of their offsprings and that's it. The rest of the group has no fixed hierarchy. > complex", "social dominance". Which is it? You say they don't have complex hierarchy and then claim complex interactions involving social dominance. Wolves have situational and individual dependants relationship some involving dominance. For example parents tend to harass their young when they approach the age of leaving. Some youngs situationaly fight other youngs but you can't establish a ranking of individual in a wild pack. That wouldn't make much sense. I have complex relationships with my friends. They sometimes involve dominance. Yet we don't have a hierarchy. > Wolf packs have hierarchy like human families have hierarchy. Human families don't have hierarchy. Young children are subordinate to their parents until they come of age, a bit like in a wolf pack actually. I am starting to understand your confusion.
    - disown 6y ago
      > Tone it down a bit. What was wrong with my tone? > You should inform yourself. I did and I am. "Wolfpacks are established according to a strict hierarchy, with a dominant male at the top and his mate not far behind." https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/g/gray-wolf/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/mammals/g/gray-wo... > I gave you the name of the author to read, Mech, in my previous post. I'm not going to read a book for this. That's so silly. If you are the one making an outrageous claim, cite the claims yourself. It's like you claiming that the earth is flat and then demanding I read some book to "inform" myself. > Some youngs situationaly fight other youngs but you can't establish a ranking of individual in a wild pack. Actually, the fighting is establishing a rank. > That wouldn't make much sense. Of course it makes sense. Just because you say it doesn't make sense don't make it true. > Human families don't have hierarchy. Yes we do. Parents at top and then kids ( pretty much by age ). Ever heard of patriarchy/matriarchy? > Young children are subordinate to their parents until they come of age Oh so there is a hierarchy? > I am starting to understand your confusion. I don't have any confusion. You are confused. You say there is no hierarchy and then use words describing a hierarchy.