6 ms·

Does this mean that domestication of raccoons is next ? They seem to enjoy excess protein from urban garbage.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
As an owner of a border collie, I'm starting to think that certain animals are too smart for domestication. Raccoons, like border collies, might just be better adept at training their humans, rather than the other way around. :-)
- wiremine 6y ago
  We recently adopted a Sheepadoodle, and this comment really resonated with me. It's a combination of a poodle and an old english sheep dog, which many think are originally from border collies. She's a wonderful animal, but really, really needs mental stimulation! She's got us trained to be sure. :-)
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    It's such a particular kind of intelligence, too, in that they get such pleasure of things that honestly annoy most human beings. Ours will just go for hours rolling a ball back and forth to you, totally fascinated by the way the ball moves across the floor, and how she's getting you to do something for her. For a human, it's just tedium. You can see how useful they'd be for moving sheep around for hours while responding to commands. They just like it. And don't care about weather, or distractions, or anything. Last week I had mine out in the bush here and she was carrying her frisbee with her. A rabbit bolted out not 5 feet in front of her and she completely ignored it, because she was currently stopped in her tracks, busy, giving the frisbee "the eye"
- yowlingcat 6y ago
  Raccoons combine border collie intelligence with /hands/. I'm not sure I'd be able to handle the level of mischief these adorable critters could get up to.
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    You can see it in videos of people who do have them as "pets." They, like monkeys, are just constant stress/work. And very destructive.
    - jpm_sd 6y ago
      s/monkeys/children
softwaredoug 6y ago
I’d imagine that dog domestication also depended on wolves being pack hunting carnivores. One can imagine there’s synergies between a group of humans and a pack of wolves hunting large game.
- screye 6y ago
  isn't that the main theory for Zebra vs Horse domestication? Heirarchichal structures in Animal societies is directly correlated to suitability for domestication.
  - brmgb 6y ago
    Wild wolves are social but not particularly hierarchichal. A typical wolf pack is formed of a couple and their offsprings. Adult wolves leave the pack to form their own. The idea that wolf pack have complex fixed hierarchical structure is mostly a myth produced by inadequate research from Rudolph Schenkel on captive wolves and popularized by even more inadequate research and a book by L. David Mech. Mech then went on to do very good work on wild wolf. Wolves are however both social and used to complex interactions involving social dominance.
    - disown 6y ago
      > Wild wolves are social but not particularly hierarchichal. This is simply a lie. All wolf packs are strictly hierarchical. Meaning there is no wolf pack without a hierarchy. > A typical wolf pack is formed of a couple and their offsprings. Which forms a hierarchy. > The idea that wolf pack have complex fixed hierarchical structure Who said they had a "complex" "fixed" hierarchical structure? It's rather simple and obvious. > Wolves are however both social and used to complex interactions involving social dominance. "complex", "social dominance". Which is it? You say they don't have complex hierarchy and then claim complex interactions involving social dominance. What do you think social dominance exists to create? Wolf packs have hierarchy like human families have hierarchy.
      - brmgb 6y ago
csours 6y ago
I've been thinking about the ethics of domestication with regard to racoons a lot. Which makes me also think about the ethics of domestication of other animals, and makes me think about the ethics of "owning" domesticated animals. I know this is a divisive topic among different people, and I find it to be a divisive topic in my own mind.

As an owner of a border collie, I'm starting to think that certain animals are too smart for domestication. Raccoons, like border collies, might just be better adept at training their humans, rather than the other way around. :-)

wiremine 6y ago
We recently adopted a Sheepadoodle, and this comment really resonated with me. It's a combination of a poodle and an old english sheep dog, which many think are originally from border collies. She's a wonderful animal, but really, really needs mental stimulation! She's got us trained to be sure. :-)
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  It's such a particular kind of intelligence, too, in that they get such pleasure of things that honestly annoy most human beings. Ours will just go for hours rolling a ball back and forth to you, totally fascinated by the way the ball moves across the floor, and how she's getting you to do something for her. For a human, it's just tedium. You can see how useful they'd be for moving sheep around for hours while responding to commands. They just like it. And don't care about weather, or distractions, or anything. Last week I had mine out in the bush here and she was carrying her frisbee with her. A rabbit bolted out not 5 feet in front of her and she completely ignored it, because she was currently stopped in her tracks, busy, giving the frisbee "the eye"
yowlingcat 6y ago
Raccoons combine border collie intelligence with /hands/. I'm not sure I'd be able to handle the level of mischief these adorable critters could get up to.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  You can see it in videos of people who do have them as "pets." They, like monkeys, are just constant stress/work. And very destructive.
  - jpm_sd 6y ago
    s/monkeys/children

softwaredoug 6y ago

I’d imagine that dog domestication also depended on wolves being pack hunting carnivores. One can imagine there’s synergies between a group of humans and a pack of wolves hunting large game.

screye 6y ago
isn't that the main theory for Zebra vs Horse domestication? Heirarchichal structures in Animal societies is directly correlated to suitability for domestication.
- brmgb 6y ago
  Wild wolves are social but not particularly hierarchichal. A typical wolf pack is formed of a couple and their offsprings. Adult wolves leave the pack to form their own. The idea that wolf pack have complex fixed hierarchical structure is mostly a myth produced by inadequate research from Rudolph Schenkel on captive wolves and popularized by even more inadequate research and a book by L. David Mech. Mech then went on to do very good work on wild wolf. Wolves are however both social and used to complex interactions involving social dominance.
  - disown 6y ago
    > Wild wolves are social but not particularly hierarchichal. This is simply a lie. All wolf packs are strictly hierarchical. Meaning there is no wolf pack without a hierarchy. > A typical wolf pack is formed of a couple and their offsprings. Which forms a hierarchy. > The idea that wolf pack have complex fixed hierarchical structure Who said they had a "complex" "fixed" hierarchical structure? It's rather simple and obvious. > Wolves are however both social and used to complex interactions involving social dominance. "complex", "social dominance". Which is it? You say they don't have complex hierarchy and then claim complex interactions involving social dominance. What do you think social dominance exists to create? Wolf packs have hierarchy like human families have hierarchy.
    - brmgb 6y ago

csours 6y ago

I've been thinking about the ethics of domestication with regard to racoons a lot. Which makes me also think about the ethics of domestication of other animals, and makes me think about the ethics of "owning" domesticated animals. I know this is a divisive topic among different people, and I find it to be a divisive topic in my own mind.