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This has a strangely hostile anti-paleo spin given the core finding. Here's the title: > Dog Domestication May Have Begun because Paleo Humans Couldn’t Stomach

This has a strangely hostile anti-paleo spin given the core finding. Here's the title: > Dog Domestication May Have Begun because Paleo Humans Couldn’t Stomach the Original Paleo Diet If they let the wolves eat the lean meat they didn't want, doesn't that mean too-much-lean-meat was not a part of "the original paleo diet"? Does she imagine that we had to eat it before we started to domesticate wolves with it? > “Because we humans are not fully adapted to a carnivorous diet, we simply cannot digest protein very well,” Lahtinen says. “It can be very fatal in a very short period of time.” Yes, if you eat all lean meat you won't last long on that. But nobody thinks that was the paleo carnivore diet that we adapted to. Our ancestors, if current hunter gathers are a guide, ate nose to tail, prioritizing the fatty parts and eating the lean parts only as necessary, else it became scraps for scavengers. It's like saying we're not fully adapted to a plant-based diet because it's dangerous to eat too much (insert toxic plant food here). Well sure, but that just means we're better adapted to other plants or plant parts. Like we're better adapted to eating a nose-to-tail animal than just the lean meat.

Retric 6y ago
It’s saying that our ancestors where actively avoiding ketosis which is the core of the Palio diet. Rabbit starvation doesn’t mean we can’t eat rabbits, it means we need to eat other things like fat, carbs while also eating rabbits. However, if your hunting rabbits you don’t have a source of fat in hand.
- deleted 6y ago
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- radford-neal 6y ago
  You need to eat either fat or carbohydrate to go with the protein. If you're eating fat with the protein (and no carbohydrates), you aren't going to avoid ketosis (and you'll be OK).
  - Retric 6y ago
    Clarified, my point. If you have a source of fat then you don’t need to hunt rabbits. But, if you have a source of carbs then rabbits are a reasonable food source. Therefore if a hunter gather was eating rabbits they where also avoiding ketosis.
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  - terio 6y ago
    >If you're eating fat with the protein (and no carbohydrates), you aren't going to avoid ketosis Actually, you would have to restrict your protein intake to small amounts to be in ketosis. It is very easy to get out of ketosis by eating a bit too much protein because it gets metabolized into glucose.
- scythe 6y ago
  >It’s saying that our ancestors where actively avoiding ketosis which is the core of the Palio diet. Ketosis and rabbit starvation (ammonia toxicity) are completely different things. The reason that there was too much protein in the meat was that there was not enough fat; carbohydrates are simply not available in Siberian winters. Also, paleo diets don't aim for ketosis. Those are called keto diets, and for most people they're just a short-term rapid weight loss strategy (also useful long-term in epilepsy and possibly some autoimmune disorders). Paleo by contrast is supposed to be a long-term maintenance diet that usually doesn't aim for rapid weight loss. Also, the downsides of "too much protein" have been well-known in pretty much every paleo discussion community since forever, since it's a well-known fact of experience among many athletes. The idea that protein toxicity is a problem in practice for paleo is silly (it wouldn't even make the top ten if you listed the real flaws). I would not advise following paleo diets in the form they're commonly presented -- they place too much emphasis on the wrong things and contribute to the iconoclastic miasma that has been suffocating Western societies -- but the article's comparison is, nonetheless, completely off-base.
  - Retric 6y ago
    From what I have read, ammonia toxicity is believed to require a secondary issue rather than just be from an extreme protein diet. This area doesn’t have a lot of research, but the reported symptoms from rabbit toxicity are noticeably different. You’re absolutely correct that the Palio community tries to have sufficient carbs and fat to balance things out. However, I am basing this on what I observed people eating on Palio which while not correct likely does help the perception of effectiveness.
AlotOfReading 6y ago
It's important to remember that "paleo" diets have little relationship to what our ancient ancestors actually ate and evolved with. We would have historically not avoided starchy, carb-filled tubers for example, which made up a major portion of the early AMH diet. Additionally, these sites are arctic and near-arctic, where the adapted behavior (and diet) is very different than what it is back in Africa.
dkarl 6y ago
I had a similar reaction, not that it's necessarily specifically anti-paleo, but that there was some motivation to cast protein in a negative light. There's a paragraph in the article that seems intentionally designed to become nutritional misinformation, ending with this: > Indeed, if humans eat too much meat, diarrhea usually ensues. And within weeks, they can develop protein poisoning and even die. “Because we humans are not fully adapted to a carnivorous diet, we simply cannot digest protein very well,” Lahtinen says. “It can be very fatal in a very short period of time.” The next paragraph makes a passing reference to available prey animals often being "nearly devoid of fat," but it doesn't explain that this near complete absence of fat in the diet is necessary to make protein "poisonous."

Retric 6y ago

It’s saying that our ancestors where actively avoiding ketosis which is the core of the Palio diet. Rabbit starvation doesn’t mean we can’t eat rabbits, it means we need to eat other things like fat, carbs while also eating rabbits. However, if your hunting rabbits you don’t have a source of fat in hand.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
radford-neal 6y ago
You need to eat either fat or carbohydrate to go with the protein. If you're eating fat with the protein (and no carbohydrates), you aren't going to avoid ketosis (and you'll be OK).
- Retric 6y ago
  Clarified, my point. If you have a source of fat then you don’t need to hunt rabbits. But, if you have a source of carbs then rabbits are a reasonable food source. Therefore if a hunter gather was eating rabbits they where also avoiding ketosis.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- terio 6y ago
  >If you're eating fat with the protein (and no carbohydrates), you aren't going to avoid ketosis Actually, you would have to restrict your protein intake to small amounts to be in ketosis. It is very easy to get out of ketosis by eating a bit too much protein because it gets metabolized into glucose.
scythe 6y ago
>It’s saying that our ancestors where actively avoiding ketosis which is the core of the Palio diet. Ketosis and rabbit starvation (ammonia toxicity) are completely different things. The reason that there was too much protein in the meat was that there was not enough fat; carbohydrates are simply not available in Siberian winters. Also, paleo diets don't aim for ketosis. Those are called keto diets, and for most people they're just a short-term rapid weight loss strategy (also useful long-term in epilepsy and possibly some autoimmune disorders). Paleo by contrast is supposed to be a long-term maintenance diet that usually doesn't aim for rapid weight loss. Also, the downsides of "too much protein" have been well-known in pretty much every paleo discussion community since forever, since it's a well-known fact of experience among many athletes. The idea that protein toxicity is a problem in practice for paleo is silly (it wouldn't even make the top ten if you listed the real flaws). I would not advise following paleo diets in the form they're commonly presented -- they place too much emphasis on the wrong things and contribute to the iconoclastic miasma that has been suffocating Western societies -- but the article's comparison is, nonetheless, completely off-base.
- Retric 6y ago
  From what I have read, ammonia toxicity is believed to require a secondary issue rather than just be from an extreme protein diet. This area doesn’t have a lot of research, but the reported symptoms from rabbit toxicity are noticeably different. You’re absolutely correct that the Palio community tries to have sufficient carbs and fat to balance things out. However, I am basing this on what I observed people eating on Palio which while not correct likely does help the perception of effectiveness.

AlotOfReading 6y ago

It's important to remember that "paleo" diets have little relationship to what our ancient ancestors actually ate and evolved with. We would have historically not avoided starchy, carb-filled tubers for example, which made up a major portion of the early AMH diet. Additionally, these sites are arctic and near-arctic, where the adapted behavior (and diet) is very different than what it is back in Africa.

dkarl 6y ago

I had a similar reaction, not that it's necessarily specifically anti-paleo, but that there was some motivation to cast protein in a negative light. There's a paragraph in the article that seems intentionally designed to become nutritional misinformation, ending with this: > Indeed, if humans eat too much meat, diarrhea usually ensues. And within weeks, they can develop protein poisoning and even die. “Because we humans are not fully adapted to a carnivorous diet, we simply cannot digest protein very well,” Lahtinen says. “It can be very fatal in a very short period of time.” The next paragraph makes a passing reference to available prey animals often being "nearly devoid of fat," but it doesn't explain that this near complete absence of fat in the diet is necessary to make protein "poisonous."