5 ms·

Apple shares iCloud backups with law enforcement.

Humdeee 6y ago
I don't get this take. Your bank, employer, ISP, pretty much any tech company, etc. would also share your data with law enforcement if court ordered.
- iknowstuff 6y ago
  If you ask around people feel like they have more privacy when using apple products, yet the truth is they all use iCloud backups, iCloud photos and iCloud drive, none of which are E2EE. Meanwhile, Google does allow for E2EE in cloud Android backups! iMessage can be MITM’d by Apple when requested by the government and you, the user, will have no way of verifying your correspondent’s public key (unlike whatsapp, signal, keybase etc).
- jiveturkey 6y ago
  except apple has the tech to not be able to share it. they use this for some of your data. but intentionally not for icloud. it’s probably nothing to do with USA law enforcement. my reasonable guess is they don’t care much and would go full private. i think the reason here is china. that way they don’t have to have a separate china policy which would draw undue attention to that point.
  - iknowstuff 6y ago
    Reuters says it was because of the US as well: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive/exclusive-apple-dropped-plan-for-encrypting-backups-after-fbi-complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...
    - jiveturkey 6y ago
      To the degree that's true, my guess is that, just like China, it's to manage public perception. That is, not "because of the US", ie some policy forced upon them.
- izacus 6y ago
  Of course and that's constantly being brought out as a huge negative when talking about Google, Facebook, Microsoft data storage. It also needs to be clearly said for Apple as well and not just swiped under the rug underneath corporate marketing.
  - soupson 6y ago
    Yes, it’s brought out as a negative because those companies are actively using that data to influence your behavior and serve you ads. Apple does not do this.
  - reaperducer 6y ago
    Of course and that's constantly being brought out as a huge negative when talking about Google, Facebook, Microsoft data storage No, what is constantly being brought out as a huge negative when talking about Google and Facebook is them using your data and data about you to make money.
tinus_hn 6y ago
If you read the document, it has a list of types of data protected by end-to-end encryption, which no one but yourself has access to. This list does not include iCloud backups. If you do not want this to happen, do not turn on the optional iCloud backups. But anyway, although Apple could decrypt the other data, they declare they don’t. Which is what the labels are about.
- iknowstuff 6y ago
  It also does not contain iCloud Photos. Nor iCloud Drive. For that matter, apple can intercept and MITM iMessage when requested by the government and don’t allow you to verify the key unlike, say, Signal or WhatsApp. I mean it’s available in China for a reason.
  - jordan_curve 6y ago
    If it’s end-to-end encrypted, why would intercepting the message be an issue?
    - judge2020 6y ago
      MITMing future messages could be completely transparent to the user.
  - coldcode 6y ago
    If it's truly end to end encryption it can't be MITM. However it could be required to be intercepted ETE in China
    - iknowstuff 6y ago
      You never get to verify that they key you’re signing with matches the key on your correspondent’s device. You are trusting Apple with it, and they could be compelled to MITM your future conversations. This is in contrast with, say, Signal, where you do get to compare keys (and it’s open source with reproducible builds).
m3kw9 6y ago
As you said it, but only if required by law.
costsNall 6y ago
Apple follows law, but otherwise appears to not grift on users except for the purchase of products, film @ 11 Different economic models. Google and Facebook cannot exist without free user data. IMO the benefits to me are suspect.

I don't get this take. Your bank, employer, ISP, pretty much any tech company, etc. would also share your data with law enforcement if court ordered.

iknowstuff 6y ago
If you ask around people feel like they have more privacy when using apple products, yet the truth is they all use iCloud backups, iCloud photos and iCloud drive, none of which are E2EE. Meanwhile, Google does allow for E2EE in cloud Android backups! iMessage can be MITM’d by Apple when requested by the government and you, the user, will have no way of verifying your correspondent’s public key (unlike whatsapp, signal, keybase etc).
jiveturkey 6y ago
except apple has the tech to not be able to share it. they use this for some of your data. but intentionally not for icloud. it’s probably nothing to do with USA law enforcement. my reasonable guess is they don’t care much and would go full private. i think the reason here is china. that way they don’t have to have a separate china policy which would draw undue attention to that point.
- iknowstuff 6y ago
  Reuters says it was because of the US as well: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive/exclusive-apple-dropped-plan-for-encrypting-backups-after-fbi-complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...
  - jiveturkey 6y ago
    To the degree that's true, my guess is that, just like China, it's to manage public perception. That is, not "because of the US", ie some policy forced upon them.
izacus 6y ago
Of course and that's constantly being brought out as a huge negative when talking about Google, Facebook, Microsoft data storage. It also needs to be clearly said for Apple as well and not just swiped under the rug underneath corporate marketing.
- soupson 6y ago
  Yes, it’s brought out as a negative because those companies are actively using that data to influence your behavior and serve you ads. Apple does not do this.
- reaperducer 6y ago
  Of course and that's constantly being brought out as a huge negative when talking about Google, Facebook, Microsoft data storage No, what is constantly being brought out as a huge negative when talking about Google and Facebook is them using your data and data about you to make money.

tinus_hn 6y ago

If you read the document, it has a list of types of data protected by end-to-end encryption, which no one but yourself has access to. This list does not include iCloud backups. If you do not want this to happen, do not turn on the optional iCloud backups. But anyway, although Apple could decrypt the other data, they declare they don’t. Which is what the labels are about.

iknowstuff 6y ago
It also does not contain iCloud Photos. Nor iCloud Drive. For that matter, apple can intercept and MITM iMessage when requested by the government and don’t allow you to verify the key unlike, say, Signal or WhatsApp. I mean it’s available in China for a reason.
- jordan_curve 6y ago
  If it’s end-to-end encrypted, why would intercepting the message be an issue?
  - judge2020 6y ago
    MITMing future messages could be completely transparent to the user.
- coldcode 6y ago
  If it's truly end to end encryption it can't be MITM. However it could be required to be intercepted ETE in China
  - iknowstuff 6y ago
    You never get to verify that they key you’re signing with matches the key on your correspondent’s device. You are trusting Apple with it, and they could be compelled to MITM your future conversations. This is in contrast with, say, Signal, where you do get to compare keys (and it’s open source with reproducible builds).

m3kw9 6y ago

As you said it, but only if required by law.

costsNall 6y ago

Apple follows law, but otherwise appears to not grift on users except for the purchase of products, film @ 11 Different economic models. Google and Facebook cannot exist without free user data. IMO the benefits to me are suspect.