6 ms·

Problem is iMessage also relies a lot on SMS, an in a lot of countries this is really, really bad (due to crazy prices, Brazil for example where WhatsApp absolu

Problem is iMessage also relies a lot on SMS, an in a lot of countries this is really, really bad (due to crazy prices, Brazil for example where WhatsApp absolutely dominates, has crazy sky high prices for cellphone communications in general, WhatsApp dominance is because people at first used it as "free SMS" and after they got voice calls, people use it as "free phonecalls")

8fingerlouie 6y ago
iMessage only relies on SMS for sending messages to people not using iMessage, and it's rather clear on when it sends messages as SMS instead of iMessage, as the recipient becomes green (before sending) if the message will be sent as SMS. Just like WA/Signal/Whatever, iMessage requires all recipients to use the service, and it just offers the option to send a message as a SMS message in case the recipient is not on iMessage.
- wodenokoto 6y ago
  I find the mixing of iMessages and sms' in the same app super confusing. Good on you for knowing which color is which, but most of my friends who are fairly good with computers and internet, don't really understand what is going on. I think Google tried the same and the Android audience were less forgiving and I think Android is better off because of that. I would have loved to have SMS and iMessage separate. I use SMS less because of iMessage. When I switched to my Android phone, some people would text me in iMessage and the messages would end up on my iPad, where I had asked for all iMessage notification to be turned off, because I want to receive SMS on my phone.
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    What's confusing about it? I'm honestly confused by your confusion. When I want to message someone, I use Messages. Whether they have an iPhone or not is irrelevant, because that will be handled in the background.
    - ryukafalz 6y ago
      It's relevant when falling back to SMS would cost you $$$. Not something I have to worry about in the US, but I understand some areas are different (a parent comment mentioned Brazil).
      - jaywalk 6y ago
        But you know before you even send the message if it will go over iMessage or SMS based on the color.
        faitswulff 6y ago
        wodenokoto’s post specifically mentioned not knowing which color is for which service. That’s the confusing part. I can’t recall off the top of my head, either, so I tend to agree.
        jaywalk 6y ago
        I find it pretty incredible that anyone who posts on HN and uses an iPhone doesn't know blue vs. green. If you go up to any random iPhone user on the street and mention "green texters" there's a very good chance they will know exactly what you're talking about.
        faitswulff 6y ago
        You keep repeating that color does it for you and other people keep repeating that it does not work for them. Suspend your disbelief. This is no Mensa puzzle, people’s brains just work differently.
        dwaite 6y ago
        The color is just one of the indicators. There is text which indicates whether it is iMessage or a Text message as well.
        6y ago
  - remote_phone 6y ago
    It clearly says “sent as text”when it’s green. There really is no confusion and takes a second to understand.
  - QuizzicalCarbon 6y ago
    In iMessage, before one starts typing, the text field says either “iMessage” or “text message”, so one knows how it’ll be sent without relying on the blue/green color scheme.
  - officeplant 6y ago
    I miss hangouts SMS integration. It was super easy toggle SMS/Hangouts as the method of sending and clearly displayed grey if it was going to be SMS.
- adamcstephens 6y ago
  Except all those others are cross platform. So billions of people can’t use iMessage at all. The default also is to fall back to SMS meaning people would have incurred costs quite easily.
  - selykg 6y ago
    The GP was saying what if iMessage was brought to Android. Now a large number of people would have access to iMessage the same way iOS people do, thus avoiding SMS charges, and becoming blue bubbles with any other iMessage phones. So you've sort of missed the point I think.
  - 8fingerlouie 6y ago
    > The default also is to fall back to SMS meaning people would have incurred costs quite easily. iMessage has an option for disabling SMS fallback. I guess i've never considered it a problem. I've had unlimited voice/SMS for close to a decade. Instead of paying by the minute/SMS/MB, the trend here is instead to use additional services (music, netflix, etc) to keep the prices up. Here in Denmark, a $50/month mobile subscription will get you unlimited voice, SMS, and 20-30GB data, along with Netflix, HBO Nordic and a music service. A basic subscription includes unlimited SMS, <10 hours of voice, and 1-5GB data, and is around $15/month. Usually during summer/christmas i get unlimited data as well for 1-2 months, and from July until new years eve we had unlimited data. It probably has some "fair usage" limit, but i've never hit it. Also, Netflix consumption doesn't count against your data cap, so you could create a wifi hotspot on your phone and stream netflix over 5G all day without using any data at all.
  - mlindner 6y ago
    At least in the US, every major cell phone provider's plans include unlimited texting. So that's not really an issue here.
- usrusr 6y ago
  Wether you perceive that as "free, with some exceptions" or as "costly, with some exceptions" depends not only on the Apple/Android ratio in your network but also on your general wealth (unless your particular brand of wealth absence is entirely based on general lack of monetary self-control)
snowwrestler 6y ago
iMessage does not use SMS at all. It is 100% IP based like WhatsApp. The Messages app on iOS devices can switch to SMS if the iMessage service is not available. It would certainly be possible for Apple to design an iMessage-only client that will not do that. But they don’t want to.

8fingerlouie 6y ago

iMessage only relies on SMS for sending messages to people not using iMessage, and it's rather clear on when it sends messages as SMS instead of iMessage, as the recipient becomes green (before sending) if the message will be sent as SMS. Just like WA/Signal/Whatever, iMessage requires all recipients to use the service, and it just offers the option to send a message as a SMS message in case the recipient is not on iMessage.

wodenokoto 6y ago
I find the mixing of iMessages and sms' in the same app super confusing. Good on you for knowing which color is which, but most of my friends who are fairly good with computers and internet, don't really understand what is going on. I think Google tried the same and the Android audience were less forgiving and I think Android is better off because of that. I would have loved to have SMS and iMessage separate. I use SMS less because of iMessage. When I switched to my Android phone, some people would text me in iMessage and the messages would end up on my iPad, where I had asked for all iMessage notification to be turned off, because I want to receive SMS on my phone.
- jaywalk 6y ago
  What's confusing about it? I'm honestly confused by your confusion. When I want to message someone, I use Messages. Whether they have an iPhone or not is irrelevant, because that will be handled in the background.
  - ryukafalz 6y ago
    It's relevant when falling back to SMS would cost you $$$. Not something I have to worry about in the US, but I understand some areas are different (a parent comment mentioned Brazil).
    - jaywalk 6y ago
      But you know before you even send the message if it will go over iMessage or SMS based on the color.
      - faitswulff 6y ago
        wodenokoto’s post specifically mentioned not knowing which color is for which service. That’s the confusing part. I can’t recall off the top of my head, either, so I tend to agree.
        jaywalk 6y ago
        I find it pretty incredible that anyone who posts on HN and uses an iPhone doesn't know blue vs. green. If you go up to any random iPhone user on the street and mention "green texters" there's a very good chance they will know exactly what you're talking about.
        faitswulff 6y ago
        You keep repeating that color does it for you and other people keep repeating that it does not work for them. Suspend your disbelief. This is no Mensa puzzle, people’s brains just work differently.
        dwaite 6y ago
        The color is just one of the indicators. There is text which indicates whether it is iMessage or a Text message as well.
        6y ago
- remote_phone 6y ago
  It clearly says “sent as text”when it’s green. There really is no confusion and takes a second to understand.
- QuizzicalCarbon 6y ago
  In iMessage, before one starts typing, the text field says either “iMessage” or “text message”, so one knows how it’ll be sent without relying on the blue/green color scheme.
- officeplant 6y ago
  I miss hangouts SMS integration. It was super easy toggle SMS/Hangouts as the method of sending and clearly displayed grey if it was going to be SMS.
adamcstephens 6y ago
Except all those others are cross platform. So billions of people can’t use iMessage at all. The default also is to fall back to SMS meaning people would have incurred costs quite easily.
- selykg 6y ago
  The GP was saying what if iMessage was brought to Android. Now a large number of people would have access to iMessage the same way iOS people do, thus avoiding SMS charges, and becoming blue bubbles with any other iMessage phones. So you've sort of missed the point I think.
- 8fingerlouie 6y ago
  > The default also is to fall back to SMS meaning people would have incurred costs quite easily. iMessage has an option for disabling SMS fallback. I guess i've never considered it a problem. I've had unlimited voice/SMS for close to a decade. Instead of paying by the minute/SMS/MB, the trend here is instead to use additional services (music, netflix, etc) to keep the prices up. Here in Denmark, a $50/month mobile subscription will get you unlimited voice, SMS, and 20-30GB data, along with Netflix, HBO Nordic and a music service. A basic subscription includes unlimited SMS, <10 hours of voice, and 1-5GB data, and is around $15/month. Usually during summer/christmas i get unlimited data as well for 1-2 months, and from July until new years eve we had unlimited data. It probably has some "fair usage" limit, but i've never hit it. Also, Netflix consumption doesn't count against your data cap, so you could create a wifi hotspot on your phone and stream netflix over 5G all day without using any data at all.
- mlindner 6y ago
  At least in the US, every major cell phone provider's plans include unlimited texting. So that's not really an issue here.
usrusr 6y ago
Wether you perceive that as "free, with some exceptions" or as "costly, with some exceptions" depends not only on the Apple/Android ratio in your network but also on your general wealth (unless your particular brand of wealth absence is entirely based on general lack of monetary self-control)

snowwrestler 6y ago

iMessage does not use SMS at all. It is 100% IP based like WhatsApp. The Messages app on iOS devices can switch to SMS if the iMessage service is not available. It would certainly be possible for Apple to design an iMessage-only client that will not do that. But they don’t want to.