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If only Apple didn't have a monopoly on the App Store on the iPhone. Then we wouldn't have to know this information because we could get it from a different App

If only Apple didn't have a monopoly on the App Store on the iPhone. Then we wouldn't have to know this information because we could get it from a different App Store where Facebook doesn't have to share this info!

IntelMiner 6y ago
That's a pretty intentionally obtuse take on a completely unrelated problem
- evgen 6y ago
  It is actually too obtuse, to be honest. It would be better to be explicit: if it were not for the Apple 800 lb gorilla holding the Facebook 800 lb gorilla's feet to the fire here due to its self-appointed role as gatekeeper of the iOS App Store then this information would remain hidden from general consumers.
  - Daho0n 6y ago
    And while they force this to be disclosed about Facebook Apple hide its own data harvesting since they can collect via sources Facebook cannot. This is pure PR and abuse of market share to better Apple's own ad service.
    - AlexandrB 6y ago
      I've seen multiple people allude to Apple secretly collecting data before. I would really like a source because it's very plausible but I haven't seen any independent research showing that this is actually happening or what's being collected. Google searches turn up stuff like this: https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-request/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-r...
    - evgen 6y ago
      You have repeatedly made this claim and have yet to provide even the thinnest shred of evidence. Please supply some or stop making these unfounded assertions.
k4rli 6y ago
If only Apple had a monopoly on all phones and computers so everyone would know it, right?
- nine_k 6y ago
  Why, the idea of an universal benevolent overlord is neither obscure nor new. It's basically the idea of God. Do you know what's the problem with God?
  - dwighttk 6y ago
    What’s the problem with God?
    - wizzwizz4 6y ago
      Well, for one, God isn't Apple Inc..[citation needed]
vincnetas 6y ago
App distribution can be totally different from API access to my device. No matter where i get the app from, when accessing certain APIs i would get notified about that, or would have to explicitly enable that functionality in OS settings.
- Razengan 6y ago
  For Apple to know about API access the app would still have to submitted to them in some manner.
  - nicky0 6y ago
    The idea was that the phone OS could detect the usage of those APIs and prompt the user wthout Apple having to be directly involved in the process.
    - nautical 6y ago
      "that the phone OS could detect the usage of those APIs" This must be handled correctly as it can this also lead to privacy violation.
      - darkwater 6y ago
        Just like on device image recognition which Apple is already doing.
      - nicky0 6y ago
        There is no reason it can't all be done on-device. That is indeed how the current "Enable camera access?" etc. system works.
        nautical 6y ago
        This is not a question at all that this can be done or not ( There is no reason it can't all be done on-device. ) Question is will this be ethical .. I will not be comfortable using a device that logs every API an app on it is calling.
absolutelyrad 6y ago
I'd argue that if apple didn't have a monopoly, we'd have stores that catered to privacy conscious people far earlier. If apple didn't restrict the OS so much, you'd have people making their own Facebook clients, wouldn't have mattered if Facebook liked it or not. The monopolization of Facebook's control on personal connections is partially because of closed OS's. And Apple's iOS is one of the most responsible OS's that gave rise to Facebook's data monopoly. Had it been like Windows, there wouldn't be a way that Facebook could've maintained their monopoly.
- fsflover 6y ago
  F-Droid proves your point.
  - qwytw 6y ago
    Are there any "unofficial" Messenger apps on F-Droid?
    - papaf 6y ago
      F-Droid has a search box you could use to answer such questions for yourself: https://search.f-droid.org/?q=facebook&lang=en https://search.f-droid.org/?q=facebook&lang=en
      - qwytw 6y ago
        That was a rhetorical question. AFAIK the closest thing you can get is wrapper around messenger web app which (which by default doesn't work on mobile browser because FB wants to force everyone to use their native apps).
        davidy123 6y ago
        While it wraps their web app, I use Frost for Facebook, which is an open source app that lets me access Facebook messages on mobile without using any of Facebook's apps.
dwighttk 6y ago
Yeah Epic sure showed Google Play, didn’t they?
teekert 6y ago
We do one thing right! So we don't need competition because you can safely assume all other things are right and the way they should be!
tmpUserA 6y ago
Is there a single time in tech history where a monopoly was not totally abused ? You are asking Apple to take over the world because you buy their privacy propaganda but ICloud is not even end2end encrypted, employee are listening to Siri conversation, Apple knows all apps you run and when instead of just providing a blacklist you compare against locally... There's a scandal every month about Apple privacy. How long before they ban ProtonMail because "You know what, we think our emails are "better for you". How long before they ban Signal because "You know what, IMessage has a better security than signal so it's "better for you". Monopoly / tech dictatorship are the easy and tempting solution but nothing good ever came out of giving some dude total power over you. And even if you like those dude because you buy their propaganda, many other people might not share your view.

IntelMiner 6y ago

That's a pretty intentionally obtuse take on a completely unrelated problem

evgen 6y ago
It is actually too obtuse, to be honest. It would be better to be explicit: if it were not for the Apple 800 lb gorilla holding the Facebook 800 lb gorilla's feet to the fire here due to its self-appointed role as gatekeeper of the iOS App Store then this information would remain hidden from general consumers.
- Daho0n 6y ago
  And while they force this to be disclosed about Facebook Apple hide its own data harvesting since they can collect via sources Facebook cannot. This is pure PR and abuse of market share to better Apple's own ad service.
  - AlexandrB 6y ago
    I've seen multiple people allude to Apple secretly collecting data before. I would really like a source because it's very plausible but I haven't seen any independent research showing that this is actually happening or what's being collected. Google searches turn up stuff like this: https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-request/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-r...
  - evgen 6y ago
    You have repeatedly made this claim and have yet to provide even the thinnest shred of evidence. Please supply some or stop making these unfounded assertions.

k4rli 6y ago

If only Apple had a monopoly on all phones and computers so everyone would know it, right?

nine_k 6y ago
Why, the idea of an universal benevolent overlord is neither obscure nor new. It's basically the idea of God. Do you know what's the problem with God?
- dwighttk 6y ago
  What’s the problem with God?
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    Well, for one, God isn't Apple Inc..[citation needed]

vincnetas 6y ago

App distribution can be totally different from API access to my device. No matter where i get the app from, when accessing certain APIs i would get notified about that, or would have to explicitly enable that functionality in OS settings.

Razengan 6y ago
For Apple to know about API access the app would still have to submitted to them in some manner.
- nicky0 6y ago
  The idea was that the phone OS could detect the usage of those APIs and prompt the user wthout Apple having to be directly involved in the process.
  - nautical 6y ago
    "that the phone OS could detect the usage of those APIs" This must be handled correctly as it can this also lead to privacy violation.
    - darkwater 6y ago
      Just like on device image recognition which Apple is already doing.
    - nicky0 6y ago
      There is no reason it can't all be done on-device. That is indeed how the current "Enable camera access?" etc. system works.
      - nautical 6y ago
        This is not a question at all that this can be done or not ( There is no reason it can't all be done on-device. ) Question is will this be ethical .. I will not be comfortable using a device that logs every API an app on it is calling.

absolutelyrad 6y ago

I'd argue that if apple didn't have a monopoly, we'd have stores that catered to privacy conscious people far earlier. If apple didn't restrict the OS so much, you'd have people making their own Facebook clients, wouldn't have mattered if Facebook liked it or not. The monopolization of Facebook's control on personal connections is partially because of closed OS's. And Apple's iOS is one of the most responsible OS's that gave rise to Facebook's data monopoly. Had it been like Windows, there wouldn't be a way that Facebook could've maintained their monopoly.

fsflover 6y ago
F-Droid proves your point.
- qwytw 6y ago
  Are there any "unofficial" Messenger apps on F-Droid?
  - papaf 6y ago
    F-Droid has a search box you could use to answer such questions for yourself: https://search.f-droid.org/?q=facebook&lang=en https://search.f-droid.org/?q=facebook&lang=en
    - qwytw 6y ago
      That was a rhetorical question. AFAIK the closest thing you can get is wrapper around messenger web app which (which by default doesn't work on mobile browser because FB wants to force everyone to use their native apps).
      - davidy123 6y ago
        While it wraps their web app, I use Frost for Facebook, which is an open source app that lets me access Facebook messages on mobile without using any of Facebook's apps.

dwighttk 6y ago

Yeah Epic sure showed Google Play, didn’t they?

teekert 6y ago

We do one thing right! So we don't need competition because you can safely assume all other things are right and the way they should be!

tmpUserA 6y ago

Is there a single time in tech history where a monopoly was not totally abused ? You are asking Apple to take over the world because you buy their privacy propaganda but ICloud is not even end2end encrypted, employee are listening to Siri conversation, Apple knows all apps you run and when instead of just providing a blacklist you compare against locally... There's a scandal every month about Apple privacy. How long before they ban ProtonMail because "You know what, we think our emails are "better for you". How long before they ban Signal because "You know what, IMessage has a better security than signal so it's "better for you". Monopoly / tech dictatorship are the easy and tempting solution but nothing good ever came out of giving some dude total power over you. And even if you like those dude because you buy their propaganda, many other people might not share your view.