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For this to have happened they'd have to have managed to do this on the initial count and all subsequent recounts, under observation by three different parties

by Jochim 6y ago

For this to have happened they'd have to have managed to do this on the initial count and all subsequent recounts, under observation by three different parties of interest and maintained a relatively consistent final number of votes.

thu2111 6y ago
The other video discussed (see my comment elsewhere in this thread) shows a vote counting coordinator telling re-counters/auditors to ignore duplicated signatures. They're literally asking her, when can we report this fraud we found, and she's telling them to just keep counting because it's "not their role" to ask such questions. So how much integrity did the recounts have? After all the video seems to show a conspiracy with multiple people involved to break the counting process: it's not like it's showing one person. I dunno. I agree it seems unlikely that this sort of thing can have swung the vote by such a huge amount - Trump still lost, for obvious reasons. But the USA has a massive problem here. It's not sufficient for a vote to be roughly correct, probably, hopefully. Election integrity is critical. It has to be seen to be unquestionably correct for democracy to work. When there are so many people swearing formally in affidavits that they saw fraud, and there is CCTV footage of blatantly very suspicious behaviours running around online, it's not a big surprise that trust in the process becomes dangerously undermined. To many people from Europe, me included, it seems bizarre and crazy that something as basic as voter ID checking has been derailed by accusations of racism (of all things). How can people trust the voting system if there's not constant efforts made to maintain its integrity? Trump is being blamed for his rhetoric now, rightfully so, but Biden's rhetoric that COVID made it too dangerous to go to voting booths and everyone should do mail-in voting seems equally dangerous to me. Everyone knows mail voting has much bigger problems with fraud than in person voting, and a quick glance at the US test-positive curves shows that the election appears to have made no difference at all, even though plenty of Trump voters turned out in person. His warnings of medical disaster if people voted physically were wrong, but have now created an environment in which Trump can convince many people that the voting process lacked integrity. Exceptionally dangerous and in no way worth it: regardless of how bad COVID is in the USA (much worse than elsewhere it seems), large-scale civil unrest would be far worse.

by Jochim 6y ago

thu2111 6y ago

The other video discussed (see my comment elsewhere in this thread) shows a vote counting coordinator telling re-counters/auditors to ignore duplicated signatures. They're literally asking her, when can we report this fraud we found, and she's telling them to just keep counting because it's "not their role" to ask such questions. So how much integrity did the recounts have? After all the video seems to show a conspiracy with multiple people involved to break the counting process: it's not like it's showing one person. I dunno. I agree it seems unlikely that this sort of thing can have swung the vote by such a huge amount - Trump still lost, for obvious reasons. But the USA has a massive problem here. It's not sufficient for a vote to be roughly correct, probably, hopefully. Election integrity is critical. It has to be seen to be unquestionably correct for democracy to work. When there are so many people swearing formally in affidavits that they saw fraud, and there is CCTV footage of blatantly very suspicious behaviours running around online, it's not a big surprise that trust in the process becomes dangerously undermined. To many people from Europe, me included, it seems bizarre and crazy that something as basic as voter ID checking has been derailed by accusations of racism (of all things). How can people trust the voting system if there's not constant efforts made to maintain its integrity? Trump is being blamed for his rhetoric now, rightfully so, but Biden's rhetoric that COVID made it too dangerous to go to voting booths and everyone should do mail-in voting seems equally dangerous to me. Everyone knows mail voting has much bigger problems with fraud than in person voting, and a quick glance at the US test-positive curves shows that the election appears to have made no difference at all, even though plenty of Trump voters turned out in person. His warnings of medical disaster if people voted physically were wrong, but have now created an environment in which Trump can convince many people that the voting process lacked integrity. Exceptionally dangerous and in no way worth it: regardless of how bad COVID is in the USA (much worse than elsewhere it seems), large-scale civil unrest would be far worse.