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I agree it's not conventional wisdom yet, but given the way the evidence is piling up I'd say it's only a matter of time. Serious conversations about energy are

by Hypx 6y ago

I agree it's not conventional wisdom yet, but given the way the evidence is piling up I'd say it's only a matter of time. Serious conversations about energy are nearly totally dominated by hydrogen and related subjects. There has been an endless stream of new hydrogen investments, with total investments well into the hundreds of billions of dollars. While there are still substantial numbers of naysayers, they always seem to be coming from a position of ignorance. I suspect if they actually knew about current events in the energy sector right now, and assuming they're open minded, then they should also agree that is the case. And if this is the case then yes, this is more matter of fact than speculation.

perl4ever 6y ago
The other name I associate with hydrogen is Toyota, and I feel like most of the recent news from them has involved batteries. In fact I think I saw something about a next generation battery coming soon that's supposed to be a big advance. So I would assume they are at least not putting all their bets on hydrogen. If you want to be carbon neutral, but quickly refuel, why hydrogen and not just synthetic hydrocarbons? What's the point of replacing all the infrastructure?
- Hypx 6y ago
  If that's all you've heard, it's likely that you are coming from a position of ignorance regarding events in the hydrogen world. There's hundreds of billions of dollars of investment right now, and even Toyota is arguably a small player in all of this. That said, they and a few others (Hyundai, Honda, several Chinese companies, and a bunch of startup companies), are the ones pushing this in passenger cars. So from that perspective, it's not too far off from the truth. However, outside of passenger cars hydrogen has been pretty much the dominant topic. 2020 was basically the year that utility companies, industrial companies, heavy transport companies, and multiple nations realized that hydrogen was both doable and in fact necessary in order to create a zero-emission world. Once you start looking at those industries, this becomes much more apparently. Meanwhile, there's been nothing of substances when it comes to new battery technology. There's always a major announcement of some kind, but it never materializes into anything real. Sure, companies continue to put money into it, and that includes Toyota, but I suspect a continuation of nothing being achieved in reality. > If you want to be carbon neutral, but quickly refuel, why hydrogen and not just synthetic hydrocarbons? What's the point of replacing all the infrastructure? Synthetic fuels are one of the major ideas being pursued as being part of the hydrogen society. That and ammonia, among a few other hydrogen storage ideas. These aren't ignored ideas, and multiple companies are pursuing them. We could very well ships or airplanes powered by chemical made by combining hydrogen with carbon or nitrogen. However, the main realization seems to be that hydrogen itself isn't that difficult to handle. With proper precautions and the right use materials it doesn't leak or corrode. It can be blended with natural gas at something like 15%, and if the pipelines are retrofitted it seems like 100% is perfectly doable. It can also be stored underground in vast quantities too, similar to how natural gas is stored in salt domes and caverns. Improvements in electrolysis and fuel cell technology seem to make using hydrogen both efficient and potentially very cheap. There's a lot of talk of green hydrogen being cheaper than fossil fuels within the decade. And you'll need anyways it for industrial heat and chemical related reasons, so we're almost at the point where hydrogen is unavoidable.

by Hypx 6y ago

perl4ever 6y ago

The other name I associate with hydrogen is Toyota, and I feel like most of the recent news from them has involved batteries. In fact I think I saw something about a next generation battery coming soon that's supposed to be a big advance. So I would assume they are at least not putting all their bets on hydrogen. If you want to be carbon neutral, but quickly refuel, why hydrogen and not just synthetic hydrocarbons? What's the point of replacing all the infrastructure?

Hypx 6y ago
If that's all you've heard, it's likely that you are coming from a position of ignorance regarding events in the hydrogen world. There's hundreds of billions of dollars of investment right now, and even Toyota is arguably a small player in all of this. That said, they and a few others (Hyundai, Honda, several Chinese companies, and a bunch of startup companies), are the ones pushing this in passenger cars. So from that perspective, it's not too far off from the truth. However, outside of passenger cars hydrogen has been pretty much the dominant topic. 2020 was basically the year that utility companies, industrial companies, heavy transport companies, and multiple nations realized that hydrogen was both doable and in fact necessary in order to create a zero-emission world. Once you start looking at those industries, this becomes much more apparently. Meanwhile, there's been nothing of substances when it comes to new battery technology. There's always a major announcement of some kind, but it never materializes into anything real. Sure, companies continue to put money into it, and that includes Toyota, but I suspect a continuation of nothing being achieved in reality. > If you want to be carbon neutral, but quickly refuel, why hydrogen and not just synthetic hydrocarbons? What's the point of replacing all the infrastructure? Synthetic fuels are one of the major ideas being pursued as being part of the hydrogen society. That and ammonia, among a few other hydrogen storage ideas. These aren't ignored ideas, and multiple companies are pursuing them. We could very well ships or airplanes powered by chemical made by combining hydrogen with carbon or nitrogen. However, the main realization seems to be that hydrogen itself isn't that difficult to handle. With proper precautions and the right use materials it doesn't leak or corrode. It can be blended with natural gas at something like 15%, and if the pipelines are retrofitted it seems like 100% is perfectly doable. It can also be stored underground in vast quantities too, similar to how natural gas is stored in salt domes and caverns. Improvements in electrolysis and fuel cell technology seem to make using hydrogen both efficient and potentially very cheap. There's a lot of talk of green hydrogen being cheaper than fossil fuels within the decade. And you'll need anyways it for industrial heat and chemical related reasons, so we're almost at the point where hydrogen is unavoidable.