5 ms·

How long is reasonable to support browsers or devices that can’t even do HTTPS? HTTPS started with Netscape in 1994, 26 years ago?

killingtime74 6y ago
And how is your computer from more than 26 years ago still connecting to the internet? Via dial up?
- l0b0 6y ago
  Ethernet was introduced in 1980 [1], 41 years ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet
  - tialaramex 6y ago
    While you can buy Ethernet service, e.g. from my ISP, I would anticipate that the set of people who have purchased Ethernet to the Internet and can't do TLS is empty. It's a niche service, it's fast, it's symmetric, it's expensive. Also you're going to need one hell of an adaptor to connect Ethernet from 1980 to modern Ethernet. The bit protocol is the same, but the hardware is radically different. I have never used the original Ethernet, but I have personally built 10base2 networks (still have terminators in various bit boxes) and I've seen some setups with 10base5 which is the earliest Ethernet that was actually commercially deployed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE5
    - shakna 6y ago
      > Also you're going to need one hell of an adaptor to connect Ethernet from 1980 to modern Ethernet. There's actual quite a number of them (like [0]) around. They can be large, but considering you can go from parallel to modern ethernet _and_ you have a choice of adapter, it's not really as big a problem as you might be foreseeing. [0] https://amiga68k.com/?product=plipbox-deluxe https://amiga68k.com/?product=plipbox-deluxe
      - tialaramex 6y ago
        Um. Did you mean to link something else entirely? That's a Plipbox. One side of it speaks 10baseT (or maybe 100baseT, it doesn't really matter) and the other is a literal Centronics-style parallel port, not Ethernet at all. The idea is, your Amiga can do PLIP (IP over the Parallel port) and this box turns that into Ethernet traffic which you can drop into any network with IP. But if you've got some 10base5 or earlier Ethernet, this does not help you at all.
    - edoceo 6y ago
      You can bridge Ethernet to other things. There are ports for 10/100 on most ISP client devices (eg: Comcast Modem). 10b2-5/10bT bridges are still available
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      > I would anticipate that the set of people who have purchased Ethernet to the Internet and can't do TLS is empty. ...what am I missing? Cable and DSL modems have ethernet ports don't they? Ethernet ports still support 10Mb/s and hall-duplex right? You might need a transceiver to physically adapt the connection, but its still ethernet... well, unless we're talking about pre-802.3 ethernet of which I'm not sure how compatible the frames are.
- anthk 6y ago
  Serial to wifi adapters exists. You basically connect to the hosts with a fake SLIRP connection.
pianom4n 6y ago
Define HTTPS. SSL? TLS? Which version? The oldest "safe" version is TLS 1.2, which only gained browser support late 2013, so 7 years ago. The article recommends not using the older unsafe versions for the sake of older browsers.
- SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
  IMO its reasonable to require that users have close to the most up to date software that their devices support. So its fine to kill off browser support after a year as long as the site can still be accessed on a 10 year old bit of hardware.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    1 year? Jesus christ. You know, in other industries things are routinely supported for decades. It is a good thing large chunks of actually essential infrastructure aren't designed by web people.
    - SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
      Its really not acceptable to be using a web browser 1 year behind on security updates. Especially since almost everyone is using an auto updating browser now. Once a feature has been out on all major browsers for a year than its fair game to use. Its also not wasting your time trying to develop a modern web app which has support for netscape navigator. Going off the usage stats of the site I work on, almost everyone is on the latest version of their browser and the ones that are not always end up upgrading after a warning notice is sent out about old borwsers.
      - throwaway201103 6y ago
        Your web app should basically work (at least essential functionality) on something like lynx as that is a decent proxy for screen readers or other accessibility aids. You'll be looking at ADA complaints if you don't.

killingtime74 6y ago

And how is your computer from more than 26 years ago still connecting to the internet? Via dial up?

l0b0 6y ago
Ethernet was introduced in 1980 [1], 41 years ago. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet
- tialaramex 6y ago
  While you can buy Ethernet service, e.g. from my ISP, I would anticipate that the set of people who have purchased Ethernet to the Internet and can't do TLS is empty. It's a niche service, it's fast, it's symmetric, it's expensive. Also you're going to need one hell of an adaptor to connect Ethernet from 1980 to modern Ethernet. The bit protocol is the same, but the hardware is radically different. I have never used the original Ethernet, but I have personally built 10base2 networks (still have terminators in various bit boxes) and I've seen some setups with 10base5 which is the earliest Ethernet that was actually commercially deployed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BASE5
  - shakna 6y ago
    > Also you're going to need one hell of an adaptor to connect Ethernet from 1980 to modern Ethernet. There's actual quite a number of them (like [0]) around. They can be large, but considering you can go from parallel to modern ethernet _and_ you have a choice of adapter, it's not really as big a problem as you might be foreseeing. [0] https://amiga68k.com/?product=plipbox-deluxe https://amiga68k.com/?product=plipbox-deluxe
    - tialaramex 6y ago
      Um. Did you mean to link something else entirely? That's a Plipbox. One side of it speaks 10baseT (or maybe 100baseT, it doesn't really matter) and the other is a literal Centronics-style parallel port, not Ethernet at all. The idea is, your Amiga can do PLIP (IP over the Parallel port) and this box turns that into Ethernet traffic which you can drop into any network with IP. But if you've got some 10base5 or earlier Ethernet, this does not help you at all.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    You can bridge Ethernet to other things. There are ports for 10/100 on most ISP client devices (eg: Comcast Modem). 10b2-5/10bT bridges are still available
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > I would anticipate that the set of people who have purchased Ethernet to the Internet and can't do TLS is empty. ...what am I missing? Cable and DSL modems have ethernet ports don't they? Ethernet ports still support 10Mb/s and hall-duplex right? You might need a transceiver to physically adapt the connection, but its still ethernet... well, unless we're talking about pre-802.3 ethernet of which I'm not sure how compatible the frames are.
anthk 6y ago
Serial to wifi adapters exists. You basically connect to the hosts with a fake SLIRP connection.

pianom4n 6y ago

Define HTTPS. SSL? TLS? Which version? The oldest "safe" version is TLS 1.2, which only gained browser support late 2013, so 7 years ago. The article recommends not using the older unsafe versions for the sake of older browsers.

SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
IMO its reasonable to require that users have close to the most up to date software that their devices support. So its fine to kill off browser support after a year as long as the site can still be accessed on a 10 year old bit of hardware.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  1 year? Jesus christ. You know, in other industries things are routinely supported for decades. It is a good thing large chunks of actually essential infrastructure aren't designed by web people.
  - SulfurHexaFluri 6y ago
    Its really not acceptable to be using a web browser 1 year behind on security updates. Especially since almost everyone is using an auto updating browser now. Once a feature has been out on all major browsers for a year than its fair game to use. Its also not wasting your time trying to develop a modern web app which has support for netscape navigator. Going off the usage stats of the site I work on, almost everyone is on the latest version of their browser and the ones that are not always end up upgrading after a warning notice is sent out about old borwsers.
    - throwaway201103 6y ago
      Your web app should basically work (at least essential functionality) on something like lynx as that is a decent proxy for screen readers or other accessibility aids. You'll be looking at ADA complaints if you don't.